degree vs diploma?

[cassioo]

My graduating class had a 100% pass rate on the NCLEX, and no physician has ever mistaken me for an ADN. After reading some of these posts, I am so proud that I chose an education over technical training.[/QUOTE]

I have a BSN also (after going through an ADN program first with 3 kids ages 1-3 at the time and working full time) I don't think any doctor ever mistook me for an ADN grad or took me for a BSN grad because I don't think they care. My ADN class had 100% pass rate and the ADN program where I've taught clinicals has had 100% pass rate also. Do you work with only BSN grads and do the ADN grads you work with know you don't think they are as good? I for one learned more in my ADN clinicals then my BSN ones (did the same things you say you did I thought it was busy work) but learned more on the job.

[Neversettle71]

In the last year of my BSN program I did 3-12 hour clinical rotations each week in acute care (cardiac critical care). I spent 8 hours each week working in a free clinic (public health nursing), I spent 8 hours each week speaking with public officials, gathering and analyzing data, participating in research, and coordinating nursing events. The rest of my week was spent in class, writing reports and papers, preparing presentations, and studying for my NCLEX. When I had time, I was a single mother to four children. When deciding your path in life, do not seek out advice from those who will never reach beyond that which is easy or immediately available to them. The only people I see bashing BSN programs are those who could never make it through a BSN program. My university took 48 students, out of 1,000 applicants. My graduating class had a 100% pass rate on the NCLEX, and no physician has ever mistaken me for an ADN. After reading some of these posts, I am so proud that I chose an education over technical training.

Wow!!! This topic really got under someone's skin. I have seen good and bad in both ADN and BSN programs. I feel the nurse herself(himself) is more relevant. Do they want to continue learning? Are they willing to research an issue in their off time? I began my practice as an ADN (with 2 other Bachelor's degrees under my belt.) As I progressed through the BSN program it felt a lot more like busywork than practice. I have never felt the need to "toot my own horn" or put others down to be proud to be a nurse. I have never met a physician who cared which degree I had either. Once they became familiar with my skills, knowledge and work ethic they treated me as an equal (I accept no less.)
I hope that this discussion will die under the weight of it's own pomposity, but it is easy to see why we as nurses have to struggle as a profession. Petty bickering is not professional!

[SoldierNurse]

Wow!!! This topic really got under someone's skin. I have seen good and bad in both ADN and BSN programs. I feel the nurse herself(himself) is more relevant. Do they want to continue learning? Are they willing to research an issue in their off time? I began my practice as an ADN (with 2 other Bachelor's degrees under my belt.) As I progressed through the BSN program it felt a lot more like busywork than practice. I have never felt the need to "toot my own horn" or put others down to be proud to be a nurse. I have never met a physician who cared which degree I had either. Once they became familiar with my skills, knowledge and work ethic they treated me as an equal (I accept no less.)
I hope that this discussion will die under the weight of it's own pomposity, but it is easy to see why we as nurses have to struggle as a profession. Petty bickering is not professional!

BRAVO!!!

:goodjob:

[NavyJim58]

As an ADN grad working on my BSN after 15 years I was surprised to hear recently that the Diploma programs are still in business in Texas. 2 new ones are opening up. I work with several diploma grads who are excellent although greying now and in management. I guess my only concern with diploma nurses is that there is no where for them to go education wise until they get a university degree. Our clinical ladder requires nurses to be working toward a BSN or MSN or other related degree.

[SoldierNurse]

As an ADN grad working on my BSN after 15 years I was surprised to hear recently that the Diploma programs are still in business in Texas. 2 new ones are opening up. I work with several diploma grads who are excellent although greying now and in management. I guess my only concern with diploma nurses is that there is no where for them to go education wise until they get a university degree. Our clinical ladder requires nurses to be working toward a BSN or MSN or other related degree.

As you know, the Army Nurse Corps is the only reserve nurse branch that accepts ADNs. However, to be eligible for Major in the ANC Reserves you need a BSN. After I completed my RN-BSN program I left the Reserve Component for Active Component, where BSN is required. In fact, I'll need a masters degree to be eligible for LtCol. However, if I retire as a Major I'll be okay.

[Cammer]

I see in this thread a lot of comparison between ADN and BSN programs. It's been said that ADN programs are short on this or that, and have more of something else, and BSN programs have less of something and more of something else when compared to ADN programs. This concept is foreign to me. Where I went to school you simply applied to the RN program. If you stopped taking classes after finishing requirements for the ADN then you were done, or could go on at a later time, or you could go all the way through and complete your BSN at one shot if you wished. But in order to go on into the BSN program it was required that you pass the NCLEX before the first semester of BSN classes were completed.

In other words, my school offers both programs with a great amount of flexibility. It's so logical that it never occurred to me that other colleges would do anything differently.

By the way, the previous posting by BSN2MSN makes a completely irrelevant point regarding a physician's opinion when it comes to ADN versus BSN. A physician's opinion of a nurse is no more relevant than a nurse's opinion of a physician. We work together, physicians and nurses, towards similar goals but from different directions. One is not superior or more opinion worthy than the other, both have equal value in the care of a patient. Nursing needs to move away from the very old idea that nurses are just physician's helpers.

[Cammer]

[quote]I have never felt the need to "toot my own horn" or put others down to be proud to be a nurse. I have never met a physician who cared which degree I had either. Once they became familiar with my skills, knowledge and work ethic they treated me as an equal (I accept no less.)[/quote]

I could not have said it better myself. :goodjob:

When a nurse shows competence and confidence in his profession he will find that many physicians will come to him for answers. The academic degree that hangs on the wall is irrelevant to one's abilities, knowledge, or professionalism, as BSN2MSN unwittingly pointed out very well.:39:

[TomB]

Wow. This topic is heating up so it's time for me to jump in!!! LOL

(I love lively discussions!) :houra:

That comment, "...and no physician has ever mistaken me for an ADN," is just crazy. I'm not even going to comment.

All I can really add is my own experience. I have an ASN degree. I went to IU in Indianapolis. It's a big medical campus - big med school and big nursing program. It was extremely difficult to get into the ASN program. The lowest GPA they were accepting at the time was a 3.4. A lot of people that couldn't get into the ASN program went the BSN route. The BSN program was a lot easier to get into. The ASN program had a 98% NCLEX pass rate - my class was 100%.

I'm not saying that ASN's were "better" or BSN's were "worse" at all. I think the difference is just that the BSN degree offers more opportunities like working in administration, becoming a NP, etc. My original plan was to get the ASN, work at a hospital with tuition reimbursement and get my BSN - but that never happened. I had no interest in administration and BSN's were just making a few cents more an hour.

Tom

[NavyJim58]

While I disagree with BSN2MSN that the ADN is a technical degree, personally I do believe Registered Nurses should hold a bachelors degree. We are professionals and should hold a 4 year degree. My pet peeve is with Nursing Schools only accepting the MSN and not another related healthcare field degree to teach Nursing. Normally unless they are hard up and need clinical instructors you can't teach in the classroom with a BSN only. Even if like me you have masters and doctoratal degrees in related areas.

I have heard the old stories of ADN nurses being more experienced and better at the bedside and BSN grads being paper pushers and clipboard carriers. I know some excellent BSN grads fresh out of school and some ADN grads who can't handle their load.

I once went to work part time for an ER in Maryland. Another new nurse in orientation with me had her BSN and MSN and had done some research and publishing and the educators and CNO at this hospital made a big deal about her going to work in their ER and how lucky the hospital and patients were to have her. She didn't last 3 complete days before quitting because she couldn't handle the work load. Education is important but there are a lot of other factors that contribute to the making of an excellent nurse.

thanks for listening