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Nurses only strike as a last resort and not usually for money. The biggest issue is staffing. I have a low opinion of an institution that will paybig bucks for strike nurses instead of using that money to hire more nurses to ease the staffing situation. The strike nurses are helping hospitals keep staffing at a dangerously low level which could impact the patient mortality rate.
In Michigan we have a hospital where the nurses have been on strike for around a year. The administration has employed "scab" nurses to fill that gap. Not only do these nurses get paid well, they are also fed and housed. It would seem the hospitals' concern about nursing costs are pretty much blown out of the water because the amount of monies spent to employ these other "nurses" has to have well surpassed the budgetary issues I'm sure they gave as the reasons they could not/would not grant the requests of their striking nurses.
Several years ago a local hospitals' nurses went on strike for a short peroid of time and the "strike breakers" were bussed in. The horror stories that were related because of nursing personell that not only were not familiar with the facility, they also were often placed in areas that were outside of their expertise were numerous. The hospital at least had the foresight to transfer their sickest and most complicated to other facilities.
I think that ultimately the nurses that allow themselves to be used to coerce fellow nurses into accepting poor employment practices will only serve to help heighten the nursing shortage. With the many choices available to women (and men) these days why "choose" to go into a profession that utilizes "mandatory" overtime, short staffing, week-ends, shift work and all of the rest that goes with traditional hospital nursing and get pimped by their collegues to boot! Just my humble opinion.
http://www.ultimatenurse.com/ubbthre...lins/noway.gif
Many hospitals have strike insurance so maybe your anger should be directed at the insurance industry. Also, where would the patients go for care. Would they go to a competing hospital and would the nurses working there be "hurting" the striking nurses by taking care of those patients. Please don't offer for admins to take care of patients. At one point when we were short they asked case managers to work the floor .. It was awful ..Worst than being short staffed. They didn't know how to use pyxis, didn't know how to use the pumps etc. We spent more time teaching them than it would have taken us to take care of the patients.. And if they were called in on a strike .. Who would teach them.. That would be a night mare.
Just my two cents..
WR,,,
Having just lived through a 1-day strike, and having walked a picket line for two weeks before while striking I can't say that I am against strikes. and while I may understand and respect my coworkers choices to cross and work..I may not like it, but can still respect their right to make a choice...I CAN say that the people they bus in to work while we are striking are really low...I don't blame the managers they make work the floor...them having to touch a patient is far worse then anything I could do to them..after all...that is the reason most of them manage.. in my opinion...but I digress....I do have problems with nurses that cross my line just to make a few bucks... And while I do think that strikes are about money...after all...we do need to make a decent wage..Most of the time, what tips the scale in favor is a strike is...respect..or the lack thereof by management for a nurses ability to assess the need for...more staffing, more and better equipment, the need for ancillary staff...breaks..(what the hell are those)
and don't need some little pencil pusher to tell me that I can get along just fine with 4 nurses for 30 patients. their "numbers" tell them that is all we need. Tell that to the littlw lady who is laying in her own mess cause I can't get down there to get her to the BR before she goes. You wanted my opinion...ya got it!!!
Laura
You are so right.All those things you talk about are about money though. And respect is about money too. Respect is about being able to be proud of the job you did today and the job you will do tomorrow..Under valuating a nurse is not respectful IMHO.
WR,,, three commas for Becca
I think that something important is being missed. First off I am an LPN awaiting RN boards and DO NOT work administration or strikes. However, if there were no strike nurses, the facilities would be at the absolute mercy of whatever idea d'jour that the staff got together on. While that may seem ideal to the staff that is a very dangerous and unreasonable business practice. If all of the nurses just walk out and no one is there to staff the hospital what would happen ? You get your way without a fight, no negotiations and then its just like you are dealing with a child. The minute they know that they can "hold their breath" and get their way. They will threaten to do so every few weeks to get some other demand met and lets face it, Nurses do make the reputation and care of the hospital but we do not run the financial side and that is probably a good thing. Strikes are a bargaining tool. Period You just need a balance of power and strike nurses mediate that balance. (at a rate of 4700 dollars per week for RN's and 3000 for LPN's) http://www.ultimatenurse.com/ubbthre...ns/shocked.gif
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on who's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep protesting the vote
"Nurses do make the reputaion and care of the hospital but we do not run the financial side and that is probably a good thing" THAT IS PROBABLY A BAD THING. Cuz I don't think many nurses would give the CEO of a small community hospital in one of the highest (if not the highest %wise) taxed state in the union more than the President of the United States....
Can I ask how long you have been a nurse? And how long you have worked in a hospital and seen the very poor management money wise many exhibit.. Like close a surgical wing, make a fancy kitchen, with two stoves etc, for the mental health unit for a couple of years ..Then gut that and revert to a surgical unit...Or open a beautiful woman's center for ONE year and then convert it to a mobile MRI unit..Yep those decisions were all made without nursing imput...But then again we know nothing of finance.. We just manage to buy houses, feed our kids, put them through college, and save for our retirement on the measley wages some hospitals care to pay us...
OK OK OK OK I am getting down now...
WR,,, three commas for Becca
I don't care what you think of me but don't attack other nurses without the facts.
Right, we're just nurses.. not financially educated. We couldn't possibly be as wise and brilliant as the hospital adminstrator they're paying the big bucks to or else why would we be doing the low end of the totem pole (patient care)?? *LOL* I wonder if the hosp administrator made a 40% return in the stock market buying & selling mortgage reit stocks like I did last year without any stock broker?
Nurses should get more involved in hospital management & administration- not just nursing admin http://www.medi-smart.com/ubbthreads...lins/smile.gif
Sara. You don't really think any of the old boys are gonna let us in do you??? Heck we don't even get a say on what chairs we get to sit in..
Come on girl???
WR,,, three commas for Becca
A union was voted in at a hospital here in Arkansas. It has not done a darn thing for them. In matter of fact, my hospital has acquired a few of the nurses. If you get involved you can have a say what chairs we can sit in. In fact we picked the chairs for the hospital to buy.
Although I can say, we did move to a new hospital 5 years ago. we had to add a floor, add a wing for surgical rooms, extend the ER in to the parking lot, and its still too small. Thanks to the high priced demographic consultant firm. When from the planning stage almost every nurse in this facility said, "Its too small."
I am agenst striking, it only hurts patient care
I have always maintained that a union is just another layer of bureauracy. And if the shop steward don't like you forget it.....
WR,,, three commas for Becca
You forgot one thing, you have to pay dues to have that bureauracy
Yeah and I don't pay for abuse...LOLL
WR,,, three commas for Becca
Hey 1mg.epi what city do you work in?? I used to live in Little Rock & worked at the ER's at UAMS & Doctors, and the NICU at St Vincents! So somebody actually managed to unionize an Arkansas hospital?? I'm honestly amazed!
WR-- we could break into Hospital Admin but we'd have to add a degree (preferably Master's) in Healthcare Administration on to do it most likely- but it sure could be done. Why not? Nurses make terrific administrators and have excellent business minds in a lot of cases at any rate... sure, we have dingbats in the profession like any other, but we do have some beautiful minds around as well! Right?
Yeah you could add that Master's but if they see BSN as an undergrad you ain't getting the job.. Especially, if you worked in the field.. God forbid you have any actual experience.......Like being a staff nurse.. No way.. http://www.ultimatenurse.com/ubbthre...lins/smile.gif
WR,,, three commas for Becca
A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and sings it back to you when you have forgotten how it goes.
Hi medi! I currently work at Baptist Health in North Little Rock. You know we built a new hospital up near the mall. OK, ready for this, I worked the night shift at Doctors in the ER from 93 to 97 part time. By the way, St. Vincents now owns Doctors. Do you know Connie.. the trauma coordinator at UAMS. I worked with her at BMMC. I attended her first Trauma Nurse Specialist course there at UAMS. Tougher test than the BCEN test.
And the BIG answer to your question of who is now under a union, THE ANSWER IS - St. Vincents.
The sad part about a union. The Nurses who do obtain a nursing management position are now further away in you chain of command. you now have a union. The prime focus of a union is separation of management and the labor force. You need a smooth line of communication between all levels of the work force to improve conditions in patient care and working conditions. I don't feel a union provides this.
St Vincents!!!! I wouldn't have guessed that one in a zillion years... hehehe. It's sort of funny though- actually St Vincents had the nicest work atmosphere of any hospital there when I worked them. How funny.
Sure, I remember Connie from UAMS. Do you know any of the others from the ER there? Steve Barrier?? Mike Hughes? Nigel- are they still there? Steve & Mike where in my med evac unit that went to Desert Storm..
You worked at Doctor's ER several years after I'd already left there to work in the ER at UAMS. I take it you live in NLR? I used to live in Jacksonville (near LRAFB of course). Worked St Vincents NICU, Baptist's SICU, Doctor's & UAMS's ERs, some weekends as extra duty at Rebsemen (sp?) in J'ville, some at Searcy Memorial, and for a while did weekend DON at the Red Cross Center downtown.. all before being pulled back to active duty for Desert Shield/Storm & then declared "mission essential" and kept on active duty. *LOL*
That was great for a long time though. Since I was faculty at UAMS I was paid half pay by the state the on top of my military pay until the war ended at least. And vacation time too! *LOL*
Ever considered working in the combat zone (working at UAMS's ER)??
nursing sucks. I made a mistake going into nursing.
1. I get no respect from managment
2. Mandatory overtime
3. [censored] pay
4. bullshit politics
5. 5 to 1 days 7 to 1 evenings 10 to 1 nights ratios
6 Rotating day night shifts rotating weekends
7. stress!! stress!! stress!!
8. New grads and their romantic views of nursing piss me off
9. more new grads than experienced nurses ( experienced nurses are getting out of the proffession)
10. I get to pick up the slack for new grads my asignments
suck all the heavy's
abandon a sinking ship!!! I am getting out. I dont care if you all go on strike. The system sucks no way to fix it. as for scabs lets all go on strike every where in the country and become scab nurses. then all the hospitals will have to pay the big bucks for our services give us rides to work buy our lunch and treat us with respect. We are a valuble commotity but in the current system we allow our selves to be treated like worthless unskilled workers. we are the system without us there is no health care sytem. we have allowed buisienss men and politicions to design and run americas health care system what do they know? Nothing about being patient advocates!!. There is no way to fix it only thing to do is to leave the proffesion.
7 years in nursing = 1 half the pay my freinds in other proffesions make. 2. I am up at 3 in the mourning on my day off because I am in the middle of my night rotation. 3. I will have one day off before my day rotation starts again. 4. I have days with no lunch 4. Days with no breaks 5. Days when I forget to go to the bathroom 5. My boss tells me that we halve to send some one home at 3:00 because a 6 to 1 nurse patient ratio is fine and we need to save money for the budget. Burned out ooo yaaaa
Gee ... where have I seen that post before? Is this deja vu or do you think this person's posting in multiple forums? *LOL*
I know nursing is tough, but it is tough in other fields to. No offense but it sounds like you have a bit of negative attitude. I did not see one positive thing in your list. It is a shame. You should get out of nursing before your attitude hurts some patient.
you know as much as nursing sucks at times I really like my job, as a matter of fact I could say I love it and have great co-workers. I worked in a union factory for 9 years before nursing and that really sucked big time all the time. Even bad days nursing are still better the a good factory day.
I'm with you..As long as I get goose bumps now and then I will tough it out.. Even the traveling.
WR,,, three commas for Becca
The name's changed but I will always be WindingRoad.
A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and sings it back to you when you have forgotten how it goes.
Is it possible that 'scab' Nurses are brought in as travel nurses and have no idea they are going into a scab situation until they are on sight?
I doubt that happens often..Usually these nurses are housed in a hotel/motel, work 6/7 days a week 12's and are bused to the hospital...All that would make me say..HUH?????
WR,,, three commas for Becca
When I lived in Honolulu, Hawaii the nurses there whould nurses strike. I remember I had a family member in ICU (before I became a nurse) and almost all the nurses were from Ca. I sence there were a few scabs in the group.
It's the only leverage nurses have when all attempts at an equitable negotiation have failed. Back in the 70's, Seattle area nurses went on strike - for about a year. But, because of that, wages were increased dramatically. Today, all nurses in Seattle area hospitals are organized.
Nurses who rely soley upon the "good will" of management are apt to lose.
Many nurses have made more money in the last decade. Irregardless of strikes.. And many nurses have lost their jobs to strikes..
WR,,, three commas for Becca
Many nurses have not lost their jobs to strikes.
Strikes are not commonplace. Nor would we want them to be. They are, as I stated before, "the only leverage nurses have when all attempts at an equitable negotiation have failed."
Ok a few... Is that better.. Did you look at my post about patient abandonment in the Union thread????? I think several travelers liked the hospital and stayed on..
WR,,, three commas for Becca
I was "raised" union. I come from coal country where the union saved a lot of lives (after all the major shootings were over, that is lol) and helped a lot of families when the companies were just out to make that almighty dollar. I would NEVER cross a picket line as a nurse (or any other type of worker) and have very little respect for someone who does.
Are you saying you would rather have the administration nurses take care of YOUR patients.. Or better yet another nurse who doesn't know how to..That's like saying you'd rather put your kids in daycare than take care of them.
See I'm looking at the patient here. While I am a nurse advocate my first loyality is to my patient.
After all the coal will still be there when the strike is over and no worse for it.. What about your patient who is on a vent, or TPN??? DKA????
JMHO
WR,,, three commas for Becca
Unions had their place in the coal business, and in manufacturing, and trucking, and so on...
But my take on unions and healthcare is that it is bad medicine! Like WR said, we are patient advocates first and foremost. Sure we have to protect our jobs just like anyone else, but if we rely on unions and administrators to dictate how we care for the sick ( or at least any more than they already do, ie...HMOs and the like, and I know someone out there will come up with some more mis-managed healthcare horror stories ) then more people will die.
Take care of your patients and vote the union out!!!
I'd like to share a union story with you and the other posters.
International Paper set up business in central Maine. I don't know just when.. I think sometime in the early 50's. Now shortly after that people started noticing the fish going belly up in the river. But they also made good money there at the paper mill..Guess none of them put two and two together.
They got the union in and one of the things the union won for the employees was DT on Sundays. As competition set in and the government tightened pollution laws the paper mill decided in contract negotiations that the Sunday DT had to go. So the union struck.. And their biggest complaint was the fact that the paper mill was polluting the river and killing all the fish..
Now don't you find it ironic that as long as the union was getting DT on Sunday's they were able to turn a blind eye to the lack of fish in the river???? See I don't particularly like groups who are self serving. The philosophy of "It's ok as long as I get my piece of the $$$ but as soon as you take that away from me I'm gonna squak "
They weren't for the river, the environment, or their fellow man ..They were in it for themselves.. Funny how unions bring that out in people.
WR,,, three commas for Becca
P.S. International Paper has since been removed from NASDAQ as one of the fortune 500 companies.. And if you don't think too many demands by nursing won't affect your position look at the influx of foreign nurses and health insurance costs.
Amen!!!
for LauraRNwv:
i was brought up union too...
my Dad worked at Ford for over 30 years...
i was faced with this potential problem 2 years ago...my husband was down sized out of a job and i had to "go agency" through 2 different agencies at 2 different facilities just to pay our bills.
at one facility (where i was getting the full time work), the union/facility were in contract negotiations and were less than a week away from striking. the manager approached me and asked if i would be willing to cross the picket line and here is what i told her...
i would cross the picket line for one reason only... somebody had to feed my little girl... and that was the only reason, that i supported the union and their demands and if it were just me or just me & my husband, i would not cross...
and it all turned out to be a moot point anyway... the hospital met the demands... no strike...
Beginning in 1976 as a Teamster (being a nurse) I developed a very strong since of the word "UNION" organization. Now, of course nurses have formed their own union ANA. But, whether people think bad or good of unions is irrelevant. What is important is that without one you find more and more employee abuse. Increased overtime without compensation and poor pay raises. Yes, you have your dues to pay, but you have to ask yourself. "What is important to me?" Is it the safety of the union net and not letting the employer abuse your license or falling through the net of unprotected workforce?
Having a Union is not unlike having a Manager as a star.
The discussion of Strike is not something either side likes to due. As with our ethics and standards as nurses, our role is to nurture and care. The hospital surely looses money if doors are closed. So, hopefully arbitration is used as a useful tool and balance to meet both needs.
Someone in the earlier thread had mentioned about poor monitary wasting with the CEO's etc. I agree whole heartedly!! As with many of our revamping and restructuring it falls back on the nurses to pull in thier belts and "suck it up" per say. While administration has purchased designer office desks, remodeled a waiting room with a $2,000.00 table etc. We see money spent foolishly and become frustrated and bitter. Not alone the agencies they pull in to tell them to cut staff and put more patient ratio's per nurse as the illustrious Matrix comes into play. These Agencies are paid in the tune to over 70K ...I COULDNT make that in 2 years (net pay).
WE are not paid what we are worth nor are our benefits suiting to the years and work we put in for our employers. Needless to say our Unions are attempting to protect us. But our Unions are only as strong as we are. Hence the Hospitals can afford to remodel, rebuild and hire outlandish Agencies.....SO WHY can they pay obscene wages and benifits??
Tired of them PLEEDIING poverty!
One Strong Union Lass
You hit it on the head. A hospital would rather pay a nurse 4700 bucks a week to cross a picket line then pay the nurse who's place she is taking a decent wage with decent benefits and a decent retirement. What does that say about respect..or the lack thereof..or who wants to have all the power. The hospital I worked for added a gorgeous new wing. All new medsurg floor..new ICU, new OR and ASU. REally beautiful...well...whoever planned it didn't pat attention. You had to walk either down a hill or up a hill to get to the entrance..stupid..so they moved it. And put the entrance right through half the ER. So they had to remodel the ER...we needed more beds but they gave us the same number of beds...less room...and designed it without any bathrooms...we got a bathroom...but the room we did pelvics in was right across from the door to the waiting room. Not too bad until they stuck a door on that had the whole top half as a window..we also had a psych room that we coluldn't lock cause it wasn't up to code..They picked the cheapest bid..and architect who had NEVER designed a medical facility..% years later they had to build an entire new building to hold the ER it had grown so much...They have had to replace the flooring in PACU 4 times because of mold..the ASU has already outgrown it's beds...very short-sighted of them don't you think?? No nurse input...we weren;t smart enough...so think again..
I love a system that puts a 3000 dollar couch in the ER waitng area...for the bums to sleep and puke on...
Anyway...if nurses didn't cross picket lines then nurses wouldn't have to strike for 2-3 months. And trust me.. your co-workers are smart. Nurses aren't going to threaten to strike over any little thing. It takes a lot to get nurses out on strike...So give us credit for not being idiots.
My Opinion only
After reading several posts on this board, I again have to say...unions help..have you read the anger and the bitterness in the posts on different boards?? Most of the nurses are burnt out, pissed off and leaving the fields. No breaks, shitty pay, no say in patient care, shitty staff/patient ratios... These are things that we fixed when we went union. Money was the smallest part... again.. those who depend on management to treat them nice.. well, good luck. Nothings perfect.. But in a profession where your co-worker will eat you alive if you dare take a break if she/he doesn't..well, something has to go. If the nurses are so burnt out they leave how does that help the patients. And beleive me..those of you who believe in taking care of patients without also taking care of ourselves as a profession..most of you will end up bitter and burnt out too. Since when does one have to be a doorrug to be a "good nurse". Since when is speaking up for yourself...asking..no demanding the proper tools to do your job. And it is a job. and a profession. And people out there in other fields can go to bat for themselves. Why is it nurses feel bad if they do. For crying out loud. I was sick of 12 hour shifts with no breaks, not peeing, not eating, doing it all...almost left. But now feel empowered. BEst thing that ever happened.
GO UNION!!!!!!!!!
You are kidding... Right???
Please tell me you are kidding!