[cougarnurse]

WOW!! What head spinning discussion about ADN/BSN practice. I will be graduating in 3 months with my ADN and currently am an LPN with almost 5 years experience at a LTC facility. I myself chose to pursue this avenue becasue I did get the experience this way, which I felt was very important. I hope to pursue future education but not immediately.

I did the LPN route for experience, also. The local community College's ADN program leaves quite a bit to be desired, though.

It took me about 15 years after getting my LPN for me to go on.....

[nursinghumor]

There is no way this could be pulled off either by a state or nationally, without grandfathering in "a lot" of practicing nurses (like a 50-70%).

It would essentially make the ADN programs nationwide worthless. Keeping in mind they are producing the majority of nurses these days, I don't see anything like this going through this generation.

Andrew Lopez, RN
Nursefriendly.com, A National Nursing & Consumer Health Directory

[justatraveler]

Originally Posted by XYpicuRN

Hey WR - direct you're anti-nurse union diatribe to the appropriate board. This is discussion about mandatory BSN. Additionally - as I stated in the other board - you are not qualified to even post comments on nursing unions.

What appropriate board would you, in your infinite wisdom, suggest. What board did I discuss unions on with you. What makes you the expert?

[justatraveler]

Originally Posted by nursinghumor

There is no way this could be pulled off either by a state or nationally, without grandfathering in "a lot" of practicing nurses (like a 50-70%).

It would essentially make the ADN programs nationwide worthless. Keeping in mind they are producing the majority of nurses these days, I don't see anything like this going through this generation.

Andrew Lopez, RN
Nursefriendly.com, A National Nursing & Consumer Health Directory

Where do you get the stats? 50-70%? Can you cite your source. Actually, that's been the plan all along. LOL

Most of the diploma schools have been "rendered worthless" and nursing has survived. I see more and more job advertisements for BSN.

Why would nursing want to relegate itself to less than a professional status? It takes a Master's now for entry to PT. Why would nurses want to be the lowest educated medical group in the hospital. And still demand respect?

[askmeh]

WTG ^5 -- excellent point

Here in lies the crux of the matter --- Is Nursing a Proffesion?

[Jessgurl723]

I think that its crap to REQUIRE nurses to be BSN. IF thats the case then there should be no ADN programs! And most hospitals dont even differentiate between ADN and BSN nurses in terms of floor nurses. At my hospital your badges are the same (Registered Nurse- nothing more nothing less), your pay is the same, your hours are the same, responsibilities are the same, and most importantly.... ITS NOT EVEN KNOWN IF YOUR A BSN OR ADN!!! Nobody even knows this kind of thing (or cares) unless you tell them. In addition to this... the BSN program closest to the hospital I work at was up for losing their accredidation last year. However, our community college RN grads beat Johns Hopkins University in pass rates! So.....

Now... this is not to say that nurses should not want to strive to further their education! I personally feel that you never "know it all" and that you should always be in the market for (be open to the idea of) furthering your education. However, I think it sucks that to go from an RN to BSN where I live it would cost a minimum of 16k. Now... the hospital only gives tuition reimbursement up to 3k a year. So... it makes sense that if I'm going to spend this amount of money furthering my education for the sole purpose of satisfying my state, then they should pay me more! Right? Yes i think so!!

It is my plan to complete my BSN eventually... in fact I already have completed the gen ed requirements so all I have left are 18 credits worth of management classes. And I will do it because then I would like to get my masters... however please note! Management classes... yes thats right. Not extra clinical or theory.... or critical thinking skills classes (not that there are such a thing but i noticed someone posted that BSN's have more critical thinking skills.... as if its a class or something...)

[nrsaddic1]

Hi,
It is too bad that the area where you are working does not differentiate between ADN and BSN. I live in the mid-west and the hospitals in this area (I have been a traveler for the last two years so I have been several places)
do put BSN on the name tags and they pay the nurses more. I just took a permanent position and I am paid more for my BSN. I am grateful because I worked long and hard to get it and am still paying back Uncle Sam. I am 52 and have been a perennial student, LPN-ADN-BSN and now I will have my masters next year. I have been a nurse for 34 years and they have been tossing mandatory BSN entry level around for years. The ANCC is pushing harder now and the magnet status is affecting it also.
If nursing is ever to attain the respect it deserves this issue will need to be settled. We are the only profession, yes, we are a profession, that has so many different layers.
I remember expressing the same things you are writing and I did the same thing that you are doing-keep going back to school. Good for you! I wish you the best in your endeavors for both your BSN and MSN.
GOD bless you,
Wilma Woodford

[askmeh]

Profession by the broadest definition of the English language is a vocation that requires considerable training and specialzed education.
Profession

In my opinion the myopic view of a Profession is a vocation that has autonomy and a terminal level degree system. My belief is that currently nursing does not have either of those things that make it a true proffesion.

It is the professional who labores as a nurse due to the lacking of autonomy and agreed upon terminal degree system.
Professional

I find it hard to rationalize that a vocation that has a wide variety of entry level points of entry is a proffession by conventional standards. In example is one year of higher education (excluding time/years of experience) the same as six years of higher education - is the knowledge base the same for a community college graduate as a university prepared graduate...

My current feeling on the subject is that I agree with the AACN's position on the standard of higher educaiton and the terminal degree ideology.

AACN's position statement and most recent study can be found here.

Perhaps there will never be an agreed upon terminal degree system for nursing or a true level of autonomy; then again after centuries of history with great advancements in health care who knows what the future holds for nursing.

A shortage of nurses prepared at the baccalaureate level may be affecting health care quality and patient outcomes. In a study published in the September 24, 2003 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) , Dr. Linda Aiken and her colleagues at the University of Pennsylvania identified a clear link between higher levels of nursing education and better patient outcomes. This extensive study found that surgical patients have a "substantial survival advantage" if treated in hospitals with higher proportions of nurses educated at the baccalaureate or higher degree level. In hospitals, a 10 percent increase in the proportion of nurses holding BSN degrees decreased the risk of patient death and failure to rescue by 5 percent.


I choose to believe that nursing will eventually become autonomous and in fact have an agreed upon entry level system. Nursing has finally began to move away from the hospitals and clinics as the primary engine behind the vocation, so I am hopeful that nursing can stand on its collective two feet and be an independent Allied Health Care Profession.

Just my two-and-one half cents

[justatraveler]

Originally Posted by askmeh

WTG ^5 -- excellent point

Here in lies the crux of the matter --- Is Nursing a Proffesion?

I rest my case. Profession is the correct spelling.

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May I suggest that the two of you end this one-on-one feud, ASAP.

[askmeh]

Perhaps proffesion is the professional spelling ... Please ignore the correct spelling in post just above your attempt to point out your depth of knowledge and experience on this topic. Nevermind my attempt to be positive and give kudos for your point of view.

Your case has been rested for some time by the depth of your argument --

Although your point is mute considering the topic, Now I am tasked with going back and reviewing all of your posts to look for semantic typographical erros.

Thanks for the positive addition to this discussion.
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May I suggest that the two of you end this one-on-one feud, ASAP.
- MagRedC5, Site Moderator