[cassioo]

The nurse manager I have right now is the best boss I've ever had and guess what she has a BSN and a MBA. I could be that she was a wonderful nurse in the first place. Luckily I haven't had bad manager some better then others though and I don't think any have had MSN.

[cannon]

There has been much discussion about requiring nurses to have there BSN'S and doing away with LPN'S for several years. I am a BSN. I taught in the PN programs. I believe strongly there is a place for all of us. I believe strongly that 75% of nursing is common sense and the other 25% is the technical skills. I have found that true so many times. As a Director of nurses in various settings, it has been my experience that I have had LPN's who could work circles around RN'S, 2 and 3 year RN's who could do the same of BSN's and RN's and BSN's who were top notch themselves. I have realized that if I become the patient or my child were to become a patient, I don't care what your tittle is, I want to know that the nurse taking care of us can save our lives if it became necessary. This kind of division is what keeps our profession from being strong and forceful. We should lift each other up instead of being divided. Every nurse, no matter what his/her educational background, contributes to the betterment of our profession and must be respected and valued. The type of nurses we should be rejecting and attempt to eliminate are those nurses who seek to destroy others for selfish gains and really don't concern themselves with what nursing is really all about. Cannon.

[smbrn]

The idea that BSN grads have better "critical thinking skills" is absurd. Just to get an idea of what exactly "critical thinking skills" are, I did a search online. What a joke! I saw descriptions of these "thinkers" as possessing an inquisitive mind. So what? Lots of people possess inquisitive minds without having to pat themselves on the back about it. Flipping through these articles on so called "nursing theory" I was reminded of the time I picked up a textbook my sister had when she was studying for an MBA. I was stunned by the beginning of a paragraph about marketing. It actually said, "Different people are motivated by different things". I remember wondering how it could be possible to get credit towards a Masters Degree by learning what is so patently obvious to most people. The same goes for nursing. As far as dismissing clinical training as less important than theory, thinking skills, etc, I just read in AdvanceNurse that some 75% of new grads report being involved in medication errors within their first six months of practice. This was a study of both AD and BSN grads. That is an alarming number. I wonder how many other professions train their graduates so poorly. And just what will these nurses say to the patients they've harmed, or on a witness stand in a malpractice suit? Does anyone think that a nurse can get away with claiming that he/she may not have learned the most basic skills of safe practice while in school, but he/she is a great thinker? Instead of the usual navel gazing nusing does it might be better for nurse educators to think about nursing's responsibilities to the public at large. Maybe it is time for nursing to adopt the adage, "first do no harm".

[LisaST]

I am currently at ADN nurse I have 9 month left to go and I will have my BSN. I think that it is stupid to make it mandatory for all nurse to have their BSN. In my BSN coarse, I have had very little and I do mean very little clinical experience. My ADN program was a lot of hands on. I work with some nurse that went and got their BSN and skipped the ADN portion and they have told me that they are mostly trained for management. That they have had very little clinical experience. What kind of nurses will we have with limited clinical training? We are in the midst of one of the worse nurses shortage in history. Is it a good idean to make nurses go to school for 4 years instead of two? Whoever is thinking of this law must have never needed to go to the hospital and have their nurse taking care of 12 other patients. The hospital that I work at is lucky at night to have one RN to a unit. Our medical unit has 32 beds and is usually staffed with one RN and the rest LPN.

[nursinghumor]

If they would attach mandatory BSN wage guidelines that are significantly higher that they pay ADNs, it would be a start.

In most facilities now you get paid the same whether you are a Diploma, ADN, AAS or BSN or MSN for that matter. Most pay scales are based on years of experience, not education.

Otherwise you'll force a lot of vital ADN programs out of business in the middle of the worst nursing shortage we've seen in generations. We need all the graduates our schools can produce right now.

Andrew Lopez, RN
http://www.4nursing.com

[Faizi]

I am a LPN and a very critical thinker. My hobbies are political studies and philosophy. I have read classic literature.

I think that it is an asset for

[Faizi]

I am a LPN. I studied fine arts in college. My hobbies are politics and philosophy. I have very artistic handwriting. I am well acquainted with classical music and literature. I am familiar with psychology from helping my first husband study for his Ph.d. I have lived in other cultures. My second husband was Pakistani and I know a lot about Islam.

I think a well rounded education is a good thing for a nurse or for a doctor.

But I think that technical knowledge is the most important thing for a doctor or nurse to have. I have pushed IV drugs. I have started many IVs. I can draw blood and run a small lab.

I became a LPN in 1983. All that I have ever heard since then is that nursing will become a profession and LPNs or those with less than a BSN will be eliminated.

I am all for nursing becoming a respected profession. I work with a NP whom I respect as much as any physician with whom I have worked.

I have no objection with the BSN becoming the standard of education for a nurse. If I am ever hospitalized, it will mean a lot to me to discuss Kierkegaard with the nurse starting my IV. I would love it if the person giving me the bed pan could speak to me of Nietzsche. I would love to discuss Mozart with my respiratory therapist.

99.9.999% of my patients have never heard of Kierkegaard or Nietzsche and barely of Mozart. I could not care less. Most of the doctors I encounter cannot intelligently discuss philosophy.

I think it is wonderful to elevate the profession of nursing.

But what is education in the wake of kindness and a soft touch? How can you replace knowledge with skill?

When I was in LPN school, we helped out some lost BSN graduates who had no clinical experience and who had probably never heard of Spinoza or Kierkegaard or Nietzsche.

I have a lot of respect for RNs. I have known many excellent RNs. I would hate to have to have a RN come behind me to start an IV or to push a drug or change a trach. I don't think that is fair to LPN or RN.

Like any trained monkey, I could be taught to do any of these things. I have done them.

It is my opinion that there should be only one level of nurse.

If the BSN is to be considered the standard, grandfather in all LPNs and diploma and associate degree RNs with five years experience.

The problem with this is that most young people are not willing to get a four year degree to empty bed pans.

Nursing Shortage.

Faizi

[askmeh]

NJ is now BSN only as RN -- more to come. 1.)American Nurses Association - The American Health Care System at a Crossroads: An Overview of the American Organization of Nurse Executives Monograph

2.)
Letter to the Editor on "Entry Into Practice: Is It Relevant Today?"

3.) OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY: THE 1965 ENTRY INTO PRACTICE PROPOSAL – IS IT RELEVANT TODAY?

[cougarnurse]

As an LPN who went on for their BSN, all I can say is.....What the...! Not everyone has the time, inclination, or especially the MONEY to afford going on. I worked FULL time, as well as attended school FULL time the last 2 semesters AND the summer between these semesters. That is not including the classes I needed to finish up the needed courses.

I have worked with LPN's and Diploma nurses who could run circles around higher degreed nurses. I hate to say this, but the degree doesn't always make the nurse.

'Cat'

[ksnse23]

WOW!! What head spinning discussion about ADN/BSN practice. I will be graduating in 3 months with my ADN and currently am an LPN with almost 5 years experience at a LTC facility. I myself chose to pursue this avenue becasue I did get the experience this way, which I felt was very important. I hope to pursue future education but not immediately.

I myself have always felt the shunning of my status and thought when I achieve my ADN I will no longer have to deal with the insults of my LPN status. (No, I am not pursueing my ADN just for status.) Well, now I am feeling the pressures of obtaining my BSN to be a "real nurse" according to some people.

On the discussion of wage. I make more than some graduate nurses in acute care setting, irregardless if ADN or BSN. So if wage was my drive .....try again. My dream is to work in an ACS and I will be taking a pay cut when I leave my current employer. (On top of the vacation and health benefits.) If wage were the issue I truly would be better off staying where I'm at.

On the discussion of duties. At my LTC facility if an RN calls in, I (an LPN) fill in for them. It is called charge LPN. Yes, I understand that the roles of a LTC facility vs. ACS range incredibly, I am not debating that. We actually joke at my job that LPN's are "low paid nurses." As our facility is now using them just like RN's. We preform all duties that the RN does except iv's or blood draws. As you can see they will never get rid of LPN's at my facility simply related to the wage issue. I'm talking alot of staffing issues here. My facility has 4 buildings with 200+ residents per building and over 1000 staff members. Yes, it is a state facility.

I guess bottom line is many aspects (wage, role) of nursing (LPN, ADN, BSN) depend on experience and where you work and what they expect. I, an LPN, have stared wide eyed and baffled about some skills or information some BSN's have stated during times when they are the decision maker and I direct them in what avenue to take. VERY SCAREY!!