Male nurse giving bed bath to a female patient.?

[Murmer]

Amanda:

That's what he says. But what does he feel? Does he really believe that? Maybe so. Probably not. We don't always mean what we say when we say things like that. Some people have had traumatic experiences in hospitals and they lose trust. These experiences are rare considering the millions of people in and out of hospitals every day. But it does happen. And we're all different. What's merely upsetting for some could be traumatic for others. As I said, chances are blogs won't be able to help him. But blogs can further fuel his distrust. I don't see people who have had these bad experiences as medical professional haters. They've been hurt. And they're lashing out. They may even be frightened, knowing that they'll eventually have to go to the hosptial again and they don't really know how to handle it.

[AmandaWIRN]

Like SoldierNurse said, this isn't a BLOG. It's a forum made for nurses, by nurses.... I understand that patients may have trust issues with healthcare workers, and that they may lash out. Hell, I work in the ER, I get "lashed out at" every day. But this forum is not my job- it's a place I go to discuss nursing issues with other nurses. I have to deal with difficult patients at work- I shouldn't have to deal with them here...

[SoldierNurse]

Originally Posted by Murmer

Amanda:

That's what he says. But what does he feel? Does he really believe that? Maybe so. Probably not. We don't always mean what we say when we say things like that. Some people have had traumatic experiences in hospitals and they lose trust. These experiences are rare considering the millions of people in and out of hospitals every day. But it does happen. And we're all different. What's merely upsetting for some could be traumatic for others. As I said, chances are blogs won't be able to help him. But blogs can further fuel his distrust. I don't see people who have had these bad experiences as medical professional haters. They've been hurt. And they're lashing out. They may even be frightened, knowing that they'll eventually have to go to the hosptial again and they don't really know how to handle it.

Murmur, please just let it go. You and the disenchanted one have led this thread off topic. Take him over to the rubber room, if that is your calling. Otherwise, stop calling this NURSING FORUM a blog.

[cougarnurse]

I agree. Whereas I am quite aware 'other sites' pull posts for lesser things, I don't really want to do it again.

I AM aware that not everyone is happy with everything that occurs in Health Care. That is why we have those dang Press Gaineys.

Either way: final warning.

[Murmer]

Okay. I understand. Out of respect for you all I will leave this forum. It might help, though, if you made it clear that if you're not a nurse you're not welcome. Maybe you have made that clear and I just missed. I wish all of you the best. You have difficult, sometimes impossible jobs. And I do respect what you do.

[dintym]

Looks like I hit a nerve. But here it the quote the made my blood boil: "If the spouce is against it but the patient dosen't care then the spouce is the only one with a problem." No, it wasn't the mis-spellings.
I will be brief.
1) I take 7 meds/day for high BP and diabetes. If I didn't have insurance, I just wouldn't take them, you wouldn't see me on the evening news protesting "free" everything.
2) Due to Dr's "superior" views of themselves (gyno/cardiologist/GP) have forced me to think this way. Almost losing our first child, gyno going through a divorce, wasn't paying attention, his partner picked up the pieces. Cardio talking down to me when asking questions after heart attack. "You are more in tune with your heart now that you've had a..." Same jerk was giving my wife BP meds when she didn't need them, passed out and fell flat on her face from 7 steps up. Spinal surgery that I referenced in first post was needed. He wouldn't admit to making an error.
3) Major problems the day she fell at Hartford Hosp, supposedly an elite trauma center. Fell at 0800, at Mid-State ER at 0900, transferred to Hartford ER at 1900, was not attended to until 2000. Yes, I was in their face about it. Was told others were before her. She was brought in on a back board and left for almost an hour before they took her off it. (they only put her back on the board to move her to Hartford)

Healtcare is doomed if the the gov't takes any more control of it. I saw this last June 28, 2008, asking first and then insisting that she be taken care of. Two doctors said "others are ahead of her" and "write a detailed letter to the CEO." The ER supervisor was in over his head.

Was I brief, no. But I, too, will exit stage left and you folks discuss the issues that affect you most. When I read some of the views it touched a nerve. God bless those that can stand the sight/smell of blood and other things, for I know that I had trouble just looking at her incision changing her bandage post-op.

Also, if not forbidden, Merry Christmas/Happy Hanukah along with a safe and Happy New Year.

Dinty, signing off.

[SoldierNurse]

Originally Posted by Murmer

Okay. I understand. Out of respect for you all I will leave this forum. It might help, though, if you made it clear that if you're not a nurse you're not welcome. Maybe you have made that clear and I just missed. I wish all of you the best. You have difficult, sometimes impossible jobs. And I do respect what you do.

All are welcome but not at the price of bashing those of us that do our best in providing optimum healthcare.

I'd think the mods here would agree that any heated discussions are more appropriate in the rubber room section. My main concern is this very good thread has gone off topic. This thread is not about the demise of our healtcare system, or how awful doctors & nurses are to their patients.

Murmur, don't go away mad. Just go... J/K Seriously, if you have a hot topic take it to the rubber room.

[SoldierNurse]

Originally Posted by dintym

Looks like I hit a nerve. But here it the quote the made my blood boil: "If the spouce is against it but the patient dosen't care then the spouce is the only one with a problem." No, it wasn't the mis-spellings.
I will be brief.
1) I take 7 meds/day for high BP and diabetes. If I didn't have insurance, I just wouldn't take them, you wouldn't see me on the evening news protesting "free" everything.
2) Due to Dr's "superior" views of themselves (gyno/cardiologist/GP) have forced me to think this way. Almost losing our first child, gyno going through a divorce, wasn't paying attention, his partner picked up the pieces. Cardio talking down to me when asking questions after heart attack. "You are more in tune with your heart now that you've had a..." Same jerk was giving my wife BP meds when she didn't need them, passed out and fell flat on her face from 7 steps up. Spinal surgery that I referenced in first post was needed. He wouldn't admit to making an error.
3) Major problems the day she fell at Hartford Hosp, supposedly an elite trauma center. Fell at 0800, at Mid-State ER at 0900, transferred to Hartford ER at 1900, was not attended to until 2000. Yes, I was in their face about it. Was told others were before her. She was brought in on a back board and left for almost an hour before they took her off it. (they only put her back on the board to move her to Hartford)

Healtcare is doomed if the the gov't takes any more control of it. I saw this last June 28, 2008, asking first and then insisting that she be taken care of. Two doctors said "others are ahead of her" and "write a detailed letter to the CEO." The ER supervisor was in over his head.

Was I brief, no. But I, too, will exit stage left and you folks discuss the issues that affect you most. When I read some of the views it touched a nerve. God bless those that can stand the sight/smell of blood and other things, for I know that I had trouble just looking at her incision changing her bandage post-op.

Also, if not forbidden, Merry Christmas/Happy Hanukah along with a safe and Happy New Year.

Dinty, signing off.

Sir, all your concerns/complaints are real & valid. I regret you & your's have received such poor healthcare. However, I can assure you [IMHO] the situations you shared with us are NOT the norm. Do similar patient experiences exist? YES. I'm sorry but they do. I would be lying, otherwise.

On a side note, do all military recruiters lie? No, however I'd be lying if I said recruiters always 100% of the time educate potential recruits to the fullest extent they deserve. I do know of recruiters with the highest of integrity. Therefore, to say all recruiters are liars just to meet quotas would be entirely false. My point being not all MD's, RN's, etc. belittle patients, or otherwise treat them inappropriately.

In my nursing programs I've always been taught to advocate for the patient, promote empowerment of the patient, and respect the patient as an individual, and not as a medical diagnosis. I can tell you this is not always an easy task with some of our demanding patients. Yet, as professionals we try to remember issues like patient transference, change in body image, feelings of pending doom, etc. No one, and I mean no one has faced such a challenge in upholding these patient care principles as I during my 15 months of providing healthcare to Iraqi detainees.

As nurses, and fellow healthcare professionals here on this site we seek each others support. The kind of support that will maintain our integrity & compassion towards our patients, there family members, as well as our team members.

Dinty, please remember that there are good healthcare folks. I appreciate your wish of happy holidays & the same to you & your's.

[Lvnguy]

Originally Posted by 3eyes

1-Is it ethical for a male nurse to give bed bath or shower to a female patient who obviously refuses?
2-Is it ethical for a male nurse to stripped and give bath with his bare hand's even on the female patient's genital's?
3-Is it ethical not to seek permission from the female patient's spouse or family member's regarding male nurse giving bath to them?
4-Had anyone of your wife's,girfriend's or even mother who obviously is a patient been given bed bath or complete shower from a male nurse without your consent or even if against their will?

Are you for real? I find it hard to believe those are serious questions. Are you a moderater trying to stimulate more posts? You dont have to be a nurse to know the answers to those questions.

[Lvnguy]

Originally Posted by dintym

I am not in the medical profession, but have been by my wife's side for 9 major operations and 1 outpatient knee surgery. I am her advocate because 1)anything the doctor/nurse staff says/does is gospel to her; 2)is afraid of insulting a doctor by questioning their judgement; 3)what I have experienced myself with hospital stays makes me suspect anybody who enters the room: doctor or doctor wanna-be, nurse or nurse underling.

Doctors are like mechanics, they try this or that. If that doesn't work, after paying for the first try, I'll try something else. Nurses, real nurses, are worth their weight in gold, but they are a dying breed. Their replacements are not the same, many times lack common sense, don't have a real grasp of the human body mechanics, and doubt they have a real grasp of life itself. Male or female, if you can't change your own oil or tire, you can't be a good nurse.

To stick to the topic, male nurses attending female patients, is where I DO have problem, as I do with female nurses with male patients. I would refuse a female bathing me or inserting/removing a catheter. I start with a situation that happened to me being prepped for an angiogram at Hartford Hospital in Aug, 2006. A female nurse was shaving my left leg/groin with only a towel over my genitals. I was talking to her and the others as they arranged for the procedure and noticed that she purposely bumped up against my penis 3 or 4 times while shaving me. Because of the whole whirlwind atmosphere I didn't pay attention to this nor say anything. It was later that I thought about this and how it happened in the open with others in the OR but without any other person near the table.

If this can happen to a male in the open, what about a female patient alone in a room with a male nurse or doctor? What about the time the unconscious female is being wheeled back to her room? My wife had a bad fall and required a hospital stay for observation. The PA asked if they had done a rectal exam in the ER upon arrival (spinal injury) which they had done, but didn't mark it on the chart. The PA (for the doctor), a male, insisted that he do another, which he did, without anyone else in the room. I objected to this later, but he just looked at me like I didn't matter. She later had lamnioplasty and I was in the room as much a they would let me. Usually from 6 am to 10/11 pm. I watched and listened to everything. When she returned from surgery about 9pm she had the "air-bags" on her legs but no pump. When I finally had to leave at midnight, I asked where the pump was. The staff didn't seem to concerned about it, but I insisted they get one or call a supervisor. They then went to another floor to find one. I caught several times forgetting doses of pain meds. My wife, in her stupor from the pain, wouldn't have said anything. Her reply was, "oh their busy, they just forgot."

It is because of such arrogance that I don't trust any medical personnel for anything, doing things just to cover their butts (thanks to lawyers like Al Gore) and those that think they know it all. I have chosen to refuse, if able, any medical help. If I am conscious, I will not let anyone touch me. If unconscious, I have given my wife permisson to deny me any medical help. I'd rather die of my injury/medical problem than have procedures done to me that would embarrass me. My biggest fear is a foley catheter by a female who doesn't have the same plumbing as I do and that may be pissed off at men because of past life experiences.

OH PUULEEAASE! This is the second post on this forum that I just cant believe is for real.