Male nurse giving bed bath to a female patient.?

[Ricu]

Here we are, back at the ageless bedbath issue except now we have the situation in reverse and it's become quite serious. I've been thinking about this thread and of course, being the verbose one that I am, need to share what's going through my head so, here goes.

Years ago, long before frivolous lawsuits and epidemic preoccupation with graphic sexuality, there was some humor to be found in in this situation. Of course there were sexual undertones but for some reason, we just laughed it off. I'm not suggesting that laughing about it will solve the seemingly arduous process of should the man bathe the woman but it may help put things in perspective.

There are still men and women and there is still sex going on but our social structure is quite different than it was years ago so we need to look at it again. Back to the bedbath. Let's see, hygeine, very important, yes? Person A is dirty and person B is there to help. Person A needs the help and Person B is willing to offer. I know it's oversimplified but that's really the where we are. Factor in our ethnicity, experience, individual morals and values around sexuality and sensuality and we intensify that very simple model. Now add the power dynamic of the nurse-patient relationship but with the sexrole reversal and we have that supercharged issue that we started with. Okay, but how do we handle it? In my opinion, we go back and oversimplify it again. A bedbath is a bedbath and nothing more or at least that's all it should be. I think that if we approach this simple, basic process in a subdued, professional, matter of fact way but keeping very aware of all forms of communication signals, the bedbath won't be a problem. There will always be exceptions but they will be few and far between.

I've been bathing female patients of all ages for years and can't remember ever having a problem. On occasion, it has been requested that a female do the bathing or toileting instead of me but I don't view that as a problem but rather a request that I should if possible, honor. Likewise, my female colleagues have approached me for help with their male patients who have requested a male to attend to them. This doesn't have to be problem oriented at all. We're looking at preferences that our patients have and if we advocate for our patients and look out for their needs, we should accommodate whenever possible and not take being refused because of our sex as a personal offense.

R

[SoldierNurse]

Originally Posted by Ricu

Here we are, back at the ageless bedbath issue except now we have the situation in reverse and it's become quite serious. I've been thinking about this thread and of course, being the verbose one that I am, need to share what's going through my head so, here goes.

Years ago, long before frivolous lawsuits and epidemic preoccupation with graphic sexuality, there was some humor to be found in in this situation. Of course there were sexual undertones but for some reason, we just laughed it off. I'm not suggesting that laughing about it will solve the seemingly arduous process of should the man bathe the woman but it may help put things in perspective.

There are still men and women and there is still sex going on but our social structure is quite different than it was years ago so we need to look at it again. Back to the bedbath. Let's see, hygeine, very important, yes? Person A is dirty and person B is there to help. Person A needs the help and Person B is willing to offer. I know it's oversimplified but that's really the where we are. Factor in our ethnicity, experience, individual morals and values around sexuality and sensuality and we intensify that very simple model. Now add the power dynamic of the nurse-patient relationship but with the sexrole reversal and we have that supercharged issue that we started with. Okay, but how do we handle it? In my opinion, we go back and oversimplify it again. A bedbath is a bedbath and nothing more or at least that's all it should be. I think that if we approach this simple, basic process in a subdued, professional, matter of fact way but keeping very aware of all forms of communication signals, the bedbath won't be a problem. There will always be exceptions but they will be few and far between.

I've been bathing female patients of all ages for years and can't remember ever having a problem. On occasion, it has been requested that a female do the bathing or toileting instead of me but I don't view that as a problem but rather a request that I should if possible, honor. Likewise, my female colleagues have approached me for help with their male patients who have requested a male to attend to them. This doesn't have to be problem oriented at all. We're looking at preferences that our patients have and if we advocate for our patients and look out for their needs, we should accommodate whenever possible and not take being refused because of our sex as a personal offense.

R

Excellent post, IMHO.

[Murmer]

I agree. Excellent last post. So I think I'll leave it at that.

[cougarnurse]

Here is a link to cultural beliefs i thought you all would be interested in: HPU nursing program sees value in cultural awareness

[dintym]

I am not in the medical profession, but have been by my wife's side for 9 major operations and 1 outpatient knee surgery. I am her advocate because 1)anything the doctor/nurse staff says/does is gospel to her; 2)is afraid of insulting a doctor by questioning their judgement; 3)what I have experienced myself with hospital stays makes me suspect anybody who enters the room: doctor or doctor wanna-be, nurse or nurse underling.

Doctors are like mechanics, they try this or that. If that doesn't work, after paying for the first try, I'll try something else. Nurses, real nurses, are worth their weight in gold, but they are a dying breed. Their replacements are not the same, many times lack common sense, don't have a real grasp of the human body mechanics, and doubt they have a real grasp of life itself. Male or female, if you can't change your own oil or tire, you can't be a good nurse.

To stick to the topic, male nurses attending female patients, is where I DO have problem, as I do with female nurses with male patients. I would refuse a female bathing me or inserting/removing a catheter. I start with a situation that happened to me being prepped for an angiogram at Hartford Hospital in Aug, 2006. A female nurse was shaving my left leg/groin with only a towel over my genitals. I was talking to her and the others as they arranged for the procedure and noticed that she purposely bumped up against my penis 3 or 4 times while shaving me. Because of the whole whirlwind atmosphere I didn't pay attention to this nor say anything. It was later that I thought about this and how it happened in the open with others in the OR but without any other person near the table.

If this can happen to a male in the open, what about a female patient alone in a room with a male nurse or doctor? What about the time the unconscious female is being wheeled back to her room? My wife had a bad fall and required a hospital stay for observation. The PA asked if they had done a rectal exam in the ER upon arrival (spinal injury) which they had done, but didn't mark it on the chart. The PA (for the doctor), a male, insisted that he do another, which he did, without anyone else in the room. I objected to this later, but he just looked at me like I didn't matter. She later had lamnioplasty and I was in the room as much a they would let me. Usually from 6 am to 10/11 pm. I watched and listened to everything. When she returned from surgery about 9pm she had the "air-bags" on her legs but no pump. When I finally had to leave at midnight, I asked where the pump was. The staff didn't seem to concerned about it, but I insisted they get one or call a supervisor. They then went to another floor to find one. I caught several times forgetting doses of pain meds. My wife, in her stupor from the pain, wouldn't have said anything. Her reply was, "oh their busy, they just forgot."

It is because of such arrogance that I don't trust any medical personnel for anything, doing things just to cover their butts (thanks to lawyers like Al Gore) and those that think they know it all. I have chosen to refuse, if able, any medical help. If I am conscious, I will not let anyone touch me. If unconscious, I have given my wife permisson to deny me any medical help. I'd rather die of my injury/medical problem than have procedures done to me that would embarrass me. My biggest fear is a foley catheter by a female who doesn't have the same plumbing as I do and that may be pissed off at men because of past life experiences.

[AmandaWIRN]

Attitude like this make our jobs as nurses 10 times more difficult.....

If you have such disdain and dislike of healthcare professionals, why are you choosing to come to a site made for and by nurses??? I'm sure you could find a conspiracy theorist, medicine-hating forum to post on somewhere....

[Murmer]

Amanda:

I can understand your frustration with such a response as appears above, but is that the best way to deal with it? Send them away? I don't think we're dealing with hatred of the profession as much as a lack of trust. The kinds of experiences he describes happen. Not all the time. But unfortunately more often that they should. I just talked with a couple recently who went through a horrible experience at a hosptial when one of them had surgery. I was surprised at the emotion they felt and how much lack of trust resulted.

I don't think a blog like this can restore the kind of trust that was lost in the man's description above, but to regard it as simply hatred toward the medical profession is, I think, simplistic. People like that man do exist in this world, and they will need medical help. Do we just let them die, or do we try to communicate with them, open up avenues of trust, try to regain what is lost.

Sorry, but I was really disappointed to read your reply.

[Robert F]

Sure, there are a select few in nursing that might be better suited in another profession. However, the same can be said for any profession you think of.

For instance, just because you hate one president's policy, do you hate the presidency? Just because one mother on the news beat her kid, do you hate all mothers?

There exists a balance between good and bad in all things in nature. In anything you observe, you will find a negative and a positive. Would you even be able to appreciate a good nurse without having experienced a bad one, or would your opinion of them not be as high, were you to experience the good nurse in the first place and never the latter?

Without night, could we appreciate day?

Please do not judge the merits of a profession by the actions of a few.
There are some good nurses out there you know.

[SoldierNurse]

Originally Posted by Murmer

Amanda:

I can understand your frustration with such a response as appears above, but is that the best way to deal with it? Send them away? I don't think we're dealing with hatred of the profession as much as a lack of trust. The kinds of experiences he describes happen. Not all the time. But unfortunately more often that they should. I just talked with a couple recently who went through a horrible experience at a hosptial when one of them had surgery. I was surprised at the emotion they felt and how much lack of trust resulted.

I don't think a blog like this can restore the kind of trust that was lost in the man's description above, but to regard it as simply hatred toward the medical profession is, I think, simplistic. People like that man do exist in this world, and they will need medical help. Do we just let them die, or do we try to communicate with them, open up avenues of trust, try to regain what is lost.

Sorry, but I was really disappointed to read your reply.

I appreciated Amanda's reply. This website (not blog, LOL) is for healthcare professionals and NOT haters of same.

[AmandaWIRN]

Originally Posted by Murmer

People like that man do exist in this world, and they will need medical help. Do we just let them die, or do we try to communicate with them, open up avenues of trust, try to regain what is lost.

Sorry, but I was really disappointed to read your reply.

He said himself he would rather die than seek medical help....