[MountainMan]

I have a quote here from Luther Christman PhD,RN,FAAN that Florence Nightingale did everything she could to eliminate men from nursing. I know she is such an iconic hero to so many people but this is very interesting. I am doing a research paper on Chritman so if anyone has anything on this I would like to hear it.
Thanx

[cougarnurse]

Guess Flo 'forgot' that nursing was originally done by males, especially during the Middle Ages.

'Cat'

[MagRedC5]

MountainMan, my guess is Flo was making a concerted effort to bring more power to women in the field of nursing. Remember, back in her day women were treated like second class citizens. I'm thankful for all the achievements Flo made & consider her views about men in nursing as a product of the times. The nursing profession has made leaps & bounds towards acceptance by society just the past 15 years.

The Army Nurse Corps [ANC] was founded 2 FEB 1901. However, It was not until 9 AUG 1955 that males were given a direct commission in the Reserve Army Nurse Corps. Even then, males were not allowed to serve as ANC officers in the Regular Army until 11 years later, 30 SEP 1966. So, I'm not bitter towards the ANC, or Florence Nightingale.

BTW, Cat did make an excellent point that men have been in nursing all the way back to the Middle Ages... shame on Flo.

[Cammer]

I'm now finishing up my BSN program. My current instructors are both PhD nurses and hold the similar view that Florence worked actively to push men out of nursing because she felt that men were not as capable. Given the times it was not difficult for her to accomplish that.

They have both gone on to state that, while Florence made significant contributions to nursing, there were many other nurses who made similar or perhaps even greater contributions and have remained unrecognized by the general public. It seems that Florence also excelled in public relations and propaganda. Because of her high social status and monetary resources she was able to push her own ideals very effectively. She was also against the Germ Theory of disease which was brand new at the time. Fortunately science prevailed on that issue.

[cougarnurse]

Mag, you are sooo right on that bit about women as 2nd class citizens! Remember, nurses were often portrayed in Literature as drunks, etc. During the Civil War, several Orders of nuns were nurses (the school I got my BSN from were instrumental in that war.)

Here is another link you can use:

Response to Luther Christman's "the future of nursing".

'Cat'

[Cammer]

Originally Posted by MagRedC5

my guess is Flo was making a concerted effort to bring more power to women in the field of nursing. Remember, back in her day women were treated like second class citizens. I'm thankful for all the achievements Flo made & consider her views about men in nursing as a product of the times.

Florence worked actively to push men out of nursing because she felt that the ideal nurse was a submissive feminine angel in white. I'm not sure about giving more power to women although that could have been an additional driving factor, but it is established that she felt men in nursing were not as capable as women.

Nursing in the late 1800s and early 1900s gave women the confidence to push towards equal rights and probably had a lot to do with women gaining the right to vote. This might be attributed to Florence.

The nursing profession has made leaps & bounds towards acceptance by society just the past 15 years.

It has taken many decades to undo the damage that Florence did to the public perception of nursing. We must continue to strive past the antiquated Florence Nightingale ideals and show people what real modern nurses do. We are well educated leaders, managers, and decision makers. We are talented professionals capable of enormous tasks, both at the bedside and behind a desk. As advanced practitioners we are a wise cost effective alternative to a physician or any member of the gluttonous self-absorbed AMA. Things are getting better for us because of what we do and what we are.

[MagRedC5]

Originally Posted by Cammer

I'm now finishing up my BSN program. My current instructors are both PhD nurses and hold the similar view that Florence worked actively to push men out of nursing because she felt that men were not as capable. Given the times it was not difficult for her to accomplish that.

They have both gone on to state that, while Florence made significant contributions to nursing, there were many other nurses who made similar or perhaps even greater contributions and have remained unrecognized by the general public. It seems that Florence also excelled in public relations and propaganda. Because of her high social status and monetary resources she was able to push her own ideals very effectively. She was also against the Germ Theory of disease which was brand new at the time. Fortunately science prevailed on that issue.

Excellent points! Yet, where would nursing be without her PR finesse for the betterment of nursing. However, I do agree with you that the other pioneers in nursing deserve to be recognized, too!

Reminds me of the flag[s] raising on Mount Suribachi during the battle of Iwo Jima during WWII. The famous pic is of five Marines and a Navy corpsman raising the American flag on Mt Suribachi. However, previously a smaller US flag was raised by a group of Marines that was met with great cheers by all that could see such a glorious sight on land & sea. Then, it was decided by the top brass that another, bigger US flag should take it's place. This second flag raising was considered to be only ceremonial and went ignored by most, except for a few photo journalist that happen to take some candid shots. When the pics were developed the scene was so surreal that it was used as a PR campaign to sell bonds for the war effort. Although, it was the first flag raising that brought pride & motivation to the troops and pics were also taken but ignored. So, the rest is history and the first group has gone virtually ignored.

Flo did great PR work, but NONE of the other male & female nursing pioneers should be ignored, either.

[MountainMan]

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Thank you all so much these replies have been helpful. Being 50 I remember when things were a whole lot more sexist around here. You women were too cherrished to be allowed to work, there was a great show on wmmr (phila. radio) in the early 70's that was called 'Up From the Pedastel'. A progressive womens movement (it was still called womens-lib in those days) show that tried to deal with the very strong resistence to women entering all aspects of society. It brought home to me that prejudice and represion were not exclusively racial. Wearing pants???!!!? Secretaries wearing pants??!!
I can remember the impact it had on the executives of the day (my father being one of them). They were worn out from the war protests and had no energy left to try and mend the fraternal fabric of dominance (mending is womens work anyway). So being in a minority (us young guys were in full support of anyone achieving a higher degree of respect and self-actualization) they had to go along with it and hope for the best. At least they could stop slicking thier hair down with Brillcream (I can't think of anything to put into parethisis here).
PR is probably right and what an unforgetable name to do it with...Florence Nightingale... Not quite like Ronald Regan but if you were to believe the recent hype this previous president is responsible for the Berlin Wall comming down...what malarky. He IS responsible for stripping VA benifits and care, and undermining healthcare for the mentally unemployable. Remember the sudden surge in the homeless as public institutions were gutted and they had to release the non-dangerous self-careable people out into the cold...
Anyway back to advancements...like my grandmother who was a suffragette and a flapper. She was the one who showed me I could manipulate my universe. God Bless Mary Pippin