[lam]

This business with LPN's vs RN's has been going on for a long time now. and yes there are some LPN's that know some things that RN's don't and it all boils down to the origins of nursing as the role of RN's increased so did the demands that were put on her that is when LPN's were brought into the picture to do more of the practical parts of nursing to free up the RN to care for the more complex pt and to take on more management roles. LPN's have more training for floor work and they are better at doing it because of that fact. Most hospitals were staffed with diploma nurses who also had a lot of hands on training these hospitals also had their own schools. With the demand for RN's to go into management and the nursing shortage more college prep was needed eventually the 2 year ADN program replaced the 3 year diploma programs. Now the new nurses have less practical hands on experience when they come out of school and this is why they initially have a hard time but they soon catch up with a good orientation program. So please ease up on the RN's it is not easy going through school to begin with and then getting thrown onto understaffed units can be very overwhelming to say the least. and remember the ADN and the BSN have the same basic clinicals for 2 years.

[jodeee]

I have been an lpn for many years. I don't think i know more than the next one. Everyday as a nurse I learn more. If people would let both the rn's an dlpn's do what they have been trained to do to the best of there abilities it would help. I think both nurses are an important part of the patient care and medical field chain are both are needed.

[ELKMNin06]

First off let me say that im sure that LPN school is not easy BUT you can not honestly say that it is fair that those of us who have chosen to pursue higher education (I have a bachelors degree and psychology and sociolgy and masters degree in nursing) should be paid the same as nurses who have an LPN? I can guarantee you that higher level learning (RN,BSN,MSN etc) is absolutely more difficult! Think about it, if LPN school was just as easy as ADN school then why would there be a difference at all? If ADN degree was "just as hard" as BSN degree then why is a BSN degree 4 years? It really is that simple, BSN nurses are more well rounded bc they have more education, education is the key. All my years of schooling have been invaluable. There is NO WAY you can tell me that I would have been just as good of a nurse if I had chosen to attend LPN school. While you may have similar skills you do not posses the all around knowledge that a higher degree gives you. It is that higher knowledge that makes certain individuals capable of higher thinking...exactly what our profession needs. If you don't have the education then you will not understand what I mean. I gaurantee if you any of you were to go back to school you would not come out saying, "that was a waste of time". If you want the same responsibilities as an RN then you need to complete that level of schooling, if LPN and ADN or BSN or whatever were "the same" then there wouldnt be levels of degrees.

It flames me that there are people out there that think just becuase "ADN nurses have the same amount of clinical time as a BSN" or that an LPN has as much clincial time as an ADN that makes them equal, I am here to tell you that nursing is MUCH MORE than just clinicals! Nursing is also about education and critical thinking skills! THAT is your difference in degrees. It boarders on riduiculous to say that less education is better or equal! Im not saying that ADN or LPN nurses aren't good nurses bc I know many that are (experience also makes a great nurse) BUT you can't expect the same respect or responsibilities (in LPN's case)as an RN (ADN or BSN).LPN's will never make the same amount of money as RNs, in fact, we, as a profession are more likely to see less LPNs and LPN programs. In my area alone there is only 1 LPN program now compared to in the past where there were many. The hospital where I work currently has chosen to let all the LPNs go with option to either work as a PCA or go back to school to get their RN. With the way the job market is moving these days we will see more of this and possibly in the future we will see the ADN degrees start to disappear as we see more and more hospitals require BSNs and MSNs. More and more people are attending Univeristies and that is making our job market even more competitive. My final point is, LPNS and ADNs want respect for their profession, which they deserve, but so do BSNs and MSNs, we want respect for the education and skills that we posses.

[WRRN]

While I have a BSN I have to disagree with you.. Knowledge isn't just handed out in those two extra years. Knowledge is learned and some people never learn. And you can't "learn" critical skills. You acquire them.

I've had nurses with a BSN who couldn't start an IV because they didn't have the critical thinking to realize they had chosen the wrong size for the vein.

You may take a course on critical thinking get an A in it and still not know what to do in every instance. And I've always felt that if I get an A in a course, either it was too easy or I probably already knew the "stuff" and wasted my time.

I was an LPN for 17 years. That gave me critical thinking skills. 4 years in Nursing School didn't.

It's not what you are "given" in school. It's how you use it.


WR,,, three commas for Becca

P.S. There is a BSN degree because someone critically thought about it and said, "Let's make some money and call it BSN."

Also, I'd suggest you give LPN's just as much respect as any RN.. One of them might be giving you a bath someday when you can't. And I'll bet you dollars to donuts it'll be the LPN.. A critical skill s/he acquired realizing that a clean person just feels better.

And lastly respect isn't handed out it's earnt..

[lam]

Well said WRRN
The 2 years of clinicals are the same for BSN and ADN, both can come out of school and should be able to work the floor at the same level. The BSN takes classes in management/leadership roles, community nursing etc. usually doesnt' have anything to do with the bedside nursing. Since I went to LPN school and the RN program I can honestly say there is a big difference with these 2 levels of nursing. If your goal is just to be a bed side nurse then the LPN probably would suffice for a nursing home type atmosphere. If you want more advanced knowledge for bedside nursing then the ADN would be sufficient, If you plan on going into other areas such as NP, then BSN will help get you there. If you are like me and finances are a problem them going the ladder route LPN- ADN - BSN -MSN etc. may be an option.
But if you do want to go further but like me circumstances are blocking you please don't take it out on any one else. an LPN is an LPN an RN is an RN. The higher degrees prove that you went to school and passed courses. Experience is worth just as much as some degrees. Many employers will substitute years of experience for certain degrees.
My experience = 14 years as charge nurse in LTC + 4 years owner/operator Family Care Home as an LPN. 10 years working in LTC as charge nurse/ superviser, acute care- floor nurse, LTAC- floor nurse as an RN. Raised 2 daughters as a Mother, Managed a Home while raising 2 daughters, working, going to school with physical limitations.

[WRRN]

Yes, I was an LPN for 17 years. I worked for over 11 years on a busy M/S floor more S than M. A highly technical Surgical floor.. Everything except hearts and transplants.
LPN's were doing their own assessments right up until I finished school. I was listening to lungs, bowel sounds, heart sounds etc. Was I an expert? He** no. I read somewhere about who hears what in the heart. Takes a GOOD cardiologist to hear the real heart sounds. When I was in my adult clinical lab the instructor, an NP BTW, asked ME how we hung blood at the hospital I worked at. She asked a student. Yes, she knew I was an LPN but she truly didn't know the steps to hanging blood. This was in a BSN program. Where were her critical thinking skills..

I believe critical thinking skills are a skill in and of themselves. You could "teach" me to cut hair but I wouldn't trust me to do a good job. Some abilities can't be "taught"

You can retroactively teach critical thinking skills but what good is that if your patient died?


The last semester in my BSN program I "took" the NCLEX test on the lab computer often. I'd say I took it about 40-50 times in all. Actually, I did it cuz I liked seeing that I passed every time. You know, that positive feedback......
When I actually took the test I completed 75 questions in 20 minutes. The women at the test center asked me if I was 'OK" I said yeah. CYA...

The NCLEX doesn't differentiate as to your level of education. That test says you are able to function as an RN given the questions you were asked that day. I had one maternity question. And it was about Pit. HMMMM. Glad I didn't plan on going into OB. I had about 15 nephrology questions. Questions the average graduate of either an ADN or BSN program probably couldn't answer. But Nephrology is my niche. I don't believe I missed even one of them..All my questions had plenty of information in the body of the question to answer it correctly. Every question actually had the "WNL" lab values.

IMHO the test is a farce actually. People take it in school labs, go to refresher courses, and see the same questions on the test that they did in their studying for the test..

He**, to drive in this country you have to take a written test and you have to actually DRIVE.. What a concept. No return demonstrations for nurses to take on a life and death career..

And please, don't tell me nursing schools weed out the "bad" ones cuz that just ain't so.

Also, nursing is a difficult physical job that requires HARD work . A work ethic, if you will, and that can't be taught either..

OK, I'm down from my soapbox now.


WR,,, three commas for Becca

Even EMT's, in order to get certified, have to do a return demonstration. They have "stations" they have to pass and a written test.

[qje999]

[ QUOTE ]
dianne waite said:
---------------------------

LPN to RN online

---------------------------



i am a 53 yr old LPN, who has worked side by side with RN's for more than 20 years, they do very little that an LPN can not do, but i to one like to be a Rn just for the pay difference, my son is a RN, my sister is a RN, i respect all nurses, but i believe the pay difference is wrong, i have worked for doctors, dept of corrections, and hospital settings, LPN's need to recognized as we were 25 years ago when we got out of nursing school, our school was not easy, either, anatomy and physiology, pharmacots, med surg. geriatrics, pediactrice, mental health, i was an honor graduate, while i raised two sons, i think we do not get the credit we deserve, we can start IV's, but can't give IV meds direct in the line, that makes no sence, Rn and LPN pharmacology are not that much different, we work er, or, peds, ob, med surg, mental health, so someone please explain why we are second class citizens in the nurse world<font color="black">Text</font> &lt;img src="http://www.ultimatenurse.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /&gt;

[/ QUOTE ]

[BSN]

To all nurses,
we must learn to respect educatoin and stick together. NO ONE is better than anyone but we must respect the extra educaton and experance all the same. We are fighting among ourselves. An LPN has the option of going back for one year to get the RN, and you will see the differance in educatoin. Even a BSN dgree is much harder so forth. AN LPN has the oppertuniy to get the RN, As an AD has the oppertunity to get the BSN. When you go back you realy learn to appriate the hard work the higher dgree has put in. We must respect and look up to the more educated and experanced nurses. When we say that a course is the same as a four year dgree nursing realy realy loses in the long run.

[BSN]

Dear WRRN,
We must stop this argument over LPN, AD and BSN, or our proffesion will never be looked at as academic. Well, this is true that all can look to work the same while doing , "bedside Nursing" this is not the end all of nursing. The differance in Ad and BSN is general educatoin which makes nursing more professional. We are looked down on because nurisng is considered a "technical" proffsion in which we don't have a well rounded educaton of satistic, Nursing research ect. Many recent studies have shown that BSN nurses save more lives, but this is besides the point. I don't care if BSN does nothing more for bedside nursing but bring more respect to an unrespected profession. When old friend saw me at a four year university she said, "what are you doing here, i thought you were doing nursing." She did not even know that there are higher degrees in nursing. we need to stop this debate, respect educatoin and experance.

[Godslady]

Hi my name is Alexia i am not a nurse as yet but im starting school in August to become one....can u please tell me whats the difference between RN,LPN,BSN and AD.Whats the highest to the lowest degree??

THanks!!