Scared out of my mind

[hppygr8ful]

Originally Posted by grayson

I definetly agree that my situation is just as cause for therapy and a monitoring system as being addicted to the drug myself! i would never deny help that is for sure! So do you mind if I ask you what you went through in your monitoring program? Was it like rehab or something? I'm just wondering what I am facing...and as far as my lawyer goes..yes,,he bugs me...he's a nice guy and pretty smart..but he doesn't let me get a word in edge wise when we meet...he does all the talkin..and he is one of those goody goody lawyer's who never does any wrong ya know..ahhh...oh well..that's what you get for livin in a small town..i just can't wait for all of this court stuff to be over so i can move out of town!!!

The program I went through was the California Nurse Diversion program. The experiences I related are based on that programk. I say this because every state has their own program and what applies in one state may not be true in another. But my experience will give you a rough idea of what you may experience.

I was fired - for stealing benedryl which I used to try to kill myself - I went into a treatment program for alcoholism and depression and during that time I got hooked up with the BON. There were a series of meetings and evaluations followed by a contract with included total abstinance from drugs and alcohol, daily AA/NA meetings for 90 days, Then 3 times a week then weekly, random uds screening, and monitored workplace - I was in this program for 3 1/2 years.

Some times it was pure H*ll - but I learned alot about myself along the way and am a healthy and good nurse today. Still continue to struggle with many issues but am better able to meet lives challenges than I was back in those days - My whole story is posted here on the site somewhere.

Peace and Namaste


Hppy

[grayson]

Originally Posted by hppygr8ful

The program I went through was the California Nurse Diversion program. The experiences I related are based on that programk. I say this because every state has their own program and what applies in one state may not be true in another. But my experience will give you a rough idea of what you may experience.

I was fired - for stealing benedryl which I used to try to kill myself - I went into a treatment program for alcoholism and depression and during that time I got hooked up with the BON. There were a series of meetings and evaluations followed by a contract with included total abstinance from drugs and alcohol, daily AA/NA meetings for 90 days, Then 3 times a week then weekly, random uds screening, and monitored workplace - I was in this program for 3 1/2 years.

Some times it was pure H*ll - but I learned alot about myself along the way and am a healthy and good nurse today. Still continue to struggle with many issues but am better able to meet lives challenges than I was back in those days - My whole story is posted here on the site somewhere.

Peace and Namaste


Hppy

WOW...congrats for successfully completing all of that! You have a lot of courage! I just don't know if I would be able to do that! I really give you alot of credit! I know I have to think of my kids when it comes to deciding if I want to fight for my license. But I have alot of thinking to do..not even sure if i want to practice anymore... I am just goin through a state of confusion right now..not sure if i want to go back to school for something different...i just don't think i am strong enough to go through all of that! Not to mention the fact that I would still have to find a job. Find a place to hire me after knowing what I am going through. I just don't know. Anyway. Thanks for letting me know what you have went through. I will update you when I know more about what I am going to face. By the way, I really liked that Dr Phil quote as well. Thanks for sharing your experiences!

[NurseRed]

I know what your going through right now, in a similar situation. I am an addict and diverted narcs. I am faced with finding someone to hire me very shortly...I have never thought maybe this is not worth it, i might one day. But for now, i am taking it one day at a time and following all regulations by my BON. My attitude has been, Just do what they want and get past this, as much as all of this stinks, i am so happy to be clean and recovering. Life is great without being controlled by opiates, for me. And i will do whatever it takes to mend my mistakes...good luck to you, keep your head up

[CRNAspa]

You might want to contact the American Association of Nurse Attorneys to see if they can direct you to a pro bono attorney, or one that will design a payment schedule. Trying to face the board alone generally results in less than desirable outcomes.

The American Association of Nurse Attorneys (TAANA)

[grayson]

[QUOTE=CRNAspa;88337]You might want to contact the American Association of Nurse Attorneys to see if they can direct you to a pro bono attorney, or one that will design a payment schedule. Trying to face the board alone generally results in less than desirable outcomes.

The American Association of Nurse Attorneys (TAANA)[/QUOTE]

So do you think I made a mistake talking with the investigator for the BON? He actually came to my HOUSE and spoke with me. Drove 3 hrs to do so. My lawyer told me to go ahead and talk to him. He was VERY nice and even gave me advice. He was the one who told me to contact our states program for addicts in the medical field. He said if I contacted them before he did, he would run that by the BON as a positive thing. So i did. SO when I do have to meet the BON I should still have a lawyer? Even if I admitted to the investigator it was my fault and comply with whatever they instruct me to do to keep my license? I'm not going to fight anything, I'm too tired to fight after all i've been through this far legally..My hearing is Monday, I still don't know what's going to happen to me with the court system. I'm just asking whomever has been there before. Should I have a lawyer if I'm admitting fault? Will the BON really try to screw me and take away my license, therefore i need to have a lawyer to make sure they are going by my rights? Are they THAT bad that they would rather let me go then help me? If my state (Michigan) has a monitoring program, then you would think they would use it right? I will still check out that sight you reccommend for lawyers pro bono, because I know i can't afford one for this..heck, i'm struggling to pay my lawyer right now for this court case..$2500!!!! Not to mention the fines I may have after this is over. Anyway..thanks so much for walking me through this! I also wanted to ask this, those of you who were fired and had to face finding employment after the fact, what was it like? Did you really get interviews after telling your story on applications? Is there help out there in finding employment while you are in treatment? It just sucks because I applied for my TN license before all this happened to me, my father was a police officer and he told me to go through with the application process because they could not release my arrest on my backround check until I was CHARGED or found guilty. He said that if they had an arrest down for me on my backround check, and I was found not guilty, I could sue the state for putting that on my record. So i went through with sending my application in to TN BON and all I heard back from them was there was a "problem" with my reinstatement. So i take it they found out I was arrested?? I don't know how?? So does this mean that I literally have to stay in Michigan for the whole time I am in treatment? Can I EVER apply for a license in a different state? There are no jobs here in MI..not only that, but I really don't want to stay in Michigan, especially this town! It was my goal in life to move south! If anyone has had a similiar situation, let me know how it went for you. Thanks much guys! Appreciate it more than you know! Everyone has made me feel SO much better about things!

[CRNAspa]

The practice of law is just like medicine in that there is a trend to more and more specialization. Criminal law is different than civil law which is different than administrative law. Facing the board of nursing isn't the same as a facing the criminal justice system in several ways. Two of the biggest differences is they can use "hear say" evidence and they don't have to read you your rights ("You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can, and will be used against you..."). I consult with an attorney who specializes in licensure defense. The board of nursing has one job, to protect the public from unsafe nurses. While some boards do have the impaired nurse's interests in mind, that's pretty unusual. Each state nurse practice act is similar but different than every other nurse practice act. The board of nursing will develop a "consent agreement" which is a contract that will determine your ability to practice nursing now and in the future. It will spell out how long your license will be suspended (if at all), how long before you may petition the board for reinstatement, what you must do before you can apply for reinstatement (have a psychiatric or chemical dependency assessment, how often and for how long you will have to provide urines for tox screens, how many support groups you have to attend in a week and for how long, how often your boss will have to provide reports to the board if/when you return to practice, controlled substances restrictions, if you have to have a backround check before applying for reinstatement, how long your license will be suspended, how long your license will have restrictions, etc. etc.).

As an example of how an attorney can be helpful, 2 CRNAs I'm working with both had clauses in their consent agreement stating they would have to seek permission from the board before they could accept a job as a nurse anesthetist...for 10 years! This was the first time their attorney had ever seen this. Before signing the agreement, the attorney worked with the board's attorney to get that down to 3 years. I guarantee you, the CRNAs would not have been able to get that reduced if they had represented themselves.

Your ability to practice as a nurse is resting in the hands of the board of nursing. Would you face criminal charges without an attorney? If you were facing civil action in the form of a law suit, would you go without an attorney? This is no different. That's the reason I recommend to every nurse facing the board of nursing, they should consider obtaining representation by an attorney who knows and understand the nurse practice act. That's exactly why I recommend nurse attorneys (The American Association of Nurse Attorneys is the link to their web site. I don't know if they have attorneys in your area who provide representation for free (pro bono), but it's certainly worth a phone call or email to find out).

Everything may go well. But if it doesn't, there may be little an attorney can do after the fact. I don't say any of this to frighten or discourage you. In an ideal world everyone struggling with substance abuse or chemical dependence would automatically enter treatment and the board of nursing would understand and do what's best for these nurses. Unfortunately that's not the way the real world operates. There is still a great deal of ignorance in the nursing profession about this disease and how to deal with nurses, doctors, pharmacists and other health care professionals who have it.

Here are some links that may be useful:

The American Nurses Association Impaired Nurse Resource Center

The Michigan Health Professional Recovery Program (HPRP)

Information regarding Michigan Board of Nursing

Feel free to send a private message.

[whome3]

[QUOTE=grayson;88476]

Originally Posted by CRNAspa

You might want to contact the American Association of Nurse Attorneys to see if they can direct you to a pro bono attorney, or one that will design a payment schedule. Trying to face the board alone generally results in less than desirable outcomes.

The American Association of Nurse Attorneys (TAANA)[/QUOTE]

So do you think I made a mistake talking with the investigator for the BON? He actually came to my HOUSE and spoke with me. Drove 3 hrs to do so. My lawyer told me to go ahead and talk to him. He was VERY nice and even gave me advice. He was the one who told me to contact our states program for addicts in the medical field. He said if I contacted them before he did, he would run that by the BON as a positive thing. So i did. SO when I do have to meet the BON I should still have a lawyer? Even if I admitted to the investigator it was my fault and comply with whatever they instruct me to do to keep my license? I'm not going to fight anything, I'm too tired to fight after all i've been through this far legally..My hearing is Monday, I still don't know what's going to happen to me with the court system. I'm just asking whomever has been there before. Should I have a lawyer if I'm admitting fault? Will the BON really try to screw me and take away my license, therefore i need to have a lawyer to make sure they are going by my rights? Are they THAT bad that they would rather let me go then help me? If my state (Michigan) has a monitoring program, then you would think they would use it right? I will still check out that sight you reccommend for lawyers pro bono, because I know i can't afford one for this..heck, i'm struggling to pay my lawyer right now for this court case..$2500!!!! Not to mention the fines I may have after this is over. Anyway..thanks so much for walking me through this! I also wanted to ask this, those of you who were fired and had to face finding employment after the fact, what was it like? Did you really get interviews after telling your story on applications? Is there help out there in finding employment while you are in treatment? It just sucks because I applied for my TN license before all this happened to me, my father was a police officer and he told me to go through with the application process because they could not release my arrest on my backround check until I was CHARGED or found guilty. He said that if they had an arrest down for me on my backround check, and I was found not guilty, I could sue the state for putting that on my record. So i went through with sending my application in to TN BON and all I heard back from them was there was a "problem" with my reinstatement. So i take it they found out I was arrested?? I don't know how?? So does this mean that I literally have to stay in Michigan for the whole time I am in treatment? Can I EVER apply for a license in a different state? There are no jobs here in MI..not only that, but I really don't want to stay in Michigan, especially this town! It was my goal in life to move south! If anyone has had a similiar situation, let me know how it went for you. Thanks much guys! Appreciate it more than you know! Everyone has made me feel SO much better about things!

As I said to you before, stealing narcs with the intent to distribute to others is much worse than stealing for personal use. You really need a lawyer for this with the BON, altho the damage is there because you basically admitted to the investigator what you did and why. The idea he gave to say it was for you and to say that you are an addict could save you but it is not certain how it works in MI and what Jack said as far as trying to wing it alone is true....

[grayson]

Originally Posted by CRNAspa

The practice of law is just like medicine in that there is a trend to more and more specialization. Criminal law is different than civil law which is different than administrative law. Facing the board of nursing isn't the same as a facing the criminal justice system in several ways. Two of the biggest differences is they can use "hear say" evidence and they don't have to read you your rights ("You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can, and will be used against you..."). I consult with an attorney who specializes in licensure defense. The board of nursing has one job, to protect the public from unsafe nurses. While some boards do have the impaired nurse's interests in mind, that's pretty unusual. Each state nurse practice act is similar but different than every other nurse practice act. The board of nursing will develop a "consent agreement" which is a contract that will determine your ability to practice nursing now and in the future. It will spell out how long your license will be suspended (if at all), how long before you may petition the board for reinstatement, what you must do before you can apply for reinstatement (have a psychiatric or chemical dependency assessment, how often and for how long you will have to provide urines for tox screens, how many support groups you have to attend in a week and for how long, how often your boss will have to provide reports to the board if/when you return to practice, controlled substances restrictions, if you have to have a backround check before applying for reinstatement, how long your license will be suspended, how long your license will have restrictions, etc. etc.).

As an example of how an attorney can be helpful, 2 CRNAs I'm working with both had clauses in their consent agreement stating they would have to seek permission from the board before they could accept a job as a nurse anesthetist...for 10 years! This was the first time their attorney had ever seen this. Before signing the agreement, the attorney worked with the board's attorney to get that down to 3 years. I guarantee you, the CRNAs would not have been able to get that reduced if they had represented themselves.

Your ability to practice as a nurse is resting in the hands of the board of nursing. Would you face criminal charges without an attorney? If you were facing civil action in the form of a law suit, would you go without an attorney? This is no different. That's the reason I recommend to every nurse facing the board of nursing, they should consider obtaining representation by an attorney who knows and understand the nurse practice act. That's exactly why I recommend nurse attorneys (The American Association of Nurse Attorneys is the link to their web site. I don't know if they have attorneys in your area who provide representation for free (pro bono), but it's certainly worth a phone call or email to find out).

Everything may go well. But if it doesn't, there may be little an attorney can do after the fact. I don't say any of this to frighten or discourage you. In an ideal world everyone struggling with substance abuse or chemical dependence would automatically enter treatment and the board of nursing would understand and do what's best for these nurses. Unfortunately that's not the way the real world operates. There is still a great deal of ignorance in the nursing profession about this disease and how to deal with nurses, doctors, pharmacists and other health care professionals who have it.

Here are some links that may be useful:

The American Nurses Association Impaired Nurse Resource Center

The Michigan Health Professional Recovery Program (HPRP)

Information regarding Michigan Board of Nursing

Feel free to send a private message.

Gosh thank you so much for all of the information! I really didn't know it was that involved! I mean, I know they take it seriously, but honestly I didn't figure they would screw you over if you were admitting you needed help and seeking it openly! WOW...again i just feel like a piece of S#&%.. like everyone else is so perfect they never make mistakes! That is just how i feel lately..like i'm crap! Everyone else is better.....well, i made a mistake..and it may have been a HUGE mistake..but i made it and I can't go back..so i'll have to face the music..if i decide i want to go through with it..i just don't want to regret it years from now ya know..if i decided not to go through with it and then regretted that...i worked so hard for my license in the first place..worked so hard in school as a single mom...that is the only reason i'll most likely go through with it..even if i don't practice for the rest of my life, i'll at least get through this. I'll check out those sights and see what i can find out as far as lawyers go..maybe i can find one that will except payments? I don't know...but i really appreciate your advice!!! I'll use it! What about getting a license in another state? I know every state is different, but what if you do all that is asked of you by the BON of the original state, and get through it all, and your re-licensed and working. Does it stay on your backround if you apply in another state? Forever? Or are all states different in that as well? I just need to know because if this is somthing I am going to have to face for the rest of my life, at least the rest of my career, then I'm pretty confident in saying I won't stick with this as a career. It's one thing to suffer while you go through it and make yourself better. It's enough that I'll never forget what I did and it will be in my heart and my memory forever...but it's another to be haunted by it for the rest of your life in every job you take...or at least reminded of it..I know this will stick with me for the rest of my life in mind and heart, but i don't need to be reminded of it everytime I start a new job, or relocate, or move on..i just can't do that. I won't do that..Life is too short..i realize that now..and I want to move on one day..push it in the back of my head and move on..i can't do that if i am being judged by every BON in every state, and every job i take...Let me know if you have any idea about that. I appreciate it! Oh and to Whone3..thanks to you as well..i really appreciate your advie and NEED it!!

[CRNAspa]

Chemical dependence is a chronic, progressive, unnecessarily fatal disease with the brain as it's target organ. The areas affected are the most primitive areas on the evolutionary scale. These areas are involved in motivation, pleasure, and survival. As a result of genetic susceptibility, the correct environmental stressors, and exposure to the right chemical for the right amount of time triggers the disease. As a result of these changes, your brain begins to believe the drug is necessary for survival. Continued use strengthens the alterations in the brain, increasing the cravings until nothing else matters but obtaining and using the drug(s). This means that those things that used to be important for survival (eating, drinking, sex, taking care of children, doing a good job, etc.) no longer matter. Obtaining and using are all that matter. Very few people are able to stop this process on their own. It can take 18 months - 2 years of abstinence for the brain to recover as much as it can. Unfortunately, the changes never return to pre-dependence levels. This is why dependence is a chronic condition. Research shows that even those with 20+ years of clean and sober time can still have those areas of the brain stimulated by "cues", those people, places, and things (music, smells, environments, etc.) associated with chemical use. In many instances the person isn't consciously aware their brain is reacting to cues. But when these cues continue, it can begin the process of altered thinking which eventually leads to "cravings" and thoughts of using. If these thoughts aren't recognized and interrupted, return to use is inevitable. This is why regular attendance at support groups (12 Step or non-12 step) is so important. The others in the group will most likely recognize the early signs before the person does. This can allow the group to help support the person in strengthening their program of recovery. The most likely reason a person relapses is because they begin to believe they don't need to do anything to remain clean and sober.

As far as other boards of nursing knowing about your history of discipline by your current board, yes, they will know. Boards of nursing communicate with each other more efficiently than they have in the past. This doesn't mean you can't get a license in other states or return to the practice of nursing. What it does mean is picking a state that has a strong commitment to alternative programs that actually help the nurse achieve and maintain recovery. Here in Ohio, the board of nursing has become significantly more punitive in their dealings with recovering nurses. While they still list an "alternative program" in the nurse practice act, fewer and fewer nurses are approved for entering that program. On the other hand, Kentucky and Indiana have programs that work well with nurses who really want to recover and return to practice. A good nurse attorney will understand the intricacies of the alternative program and help guide and advise their client in how best to deal with the board while in the alternative to discipline program.

None of this means you can't practice again. What it does mean is you have to make a commitment to your recovery while keeping the people who can help you achieve the highest level of sobriety within the bounds of the nurse practice act.

Here's a good link to get you started on learning more about the science of addiction.
Science of Addiction - ATTC Nework

[SrenitPlz08]

Scared out of my mind I was terminated for job for being impaired, and diversion. It's complicated . I was impaired with a new med I had taken from my pych doc. on midnightshift. I have already been a year in recovery for opiatesand xanax,been on suboxone,They found this all out when they put me on a medical leave after sending me to empoyee health then employee assistance,set me up for therapy/and couselign..cleared to go back to work and occupational health tells me go to HR first its' policy , they terminate me. I feel screwed ..thinking on getting a lawyer because isn't there a Americans with disabilities law there is somethign in there that protects addicts and those in recovery, also depression/anxiety/etc.anyway..GRAYSON..I FEEL FOR YOU I HAVE BEEN READING YOUR POST..I FEEL THIS TIME AROUND I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO CALL HPRP AND SELF REPORT..ALTHOUGH THERE WAS NO DIVERSION, they. pulled charts for two weeks prior to the "impaired" event, and found that i had not signed out some meds, misc, narcs, benzo's, cough meds., I had said that I ahd been seeing my doc those weeks and was on quite a few meds for depression and anxiety and i was complaining to her about forfetfullness and memory loss and inability to sleep. I told management the were extreme errors of omission. I had relapse at home the day they sent me home from work saying "they didn't me and I wasn't myslef the night befor and they had some thingso look into"..they treated like a dog I was new to the floor I had been recently displaced there so i felt like an out cast anyway..I thought my life was over ..I ransacked my house I couldn't sleep did?'t know how to tell my husband i found a few old xanax.
I am from MI anyone know a pro bono lawyer??