[dlf2007]

I keep reading posts about positive ETG's. Is it true that eating cookies or other baked goods that have been cooked with vanilla, etc. extracts will produce a positive? I thought in order to produce a positive ETG the substance would need to be ingested in its true form, before being cooked/baked. I understand that hand sanitizers, some cosmetics will produce a positive but am concerned about foods now.

[COMEBACKDAD]

Scary stuff, dlf. Im no prime authority on this stuff, but I do know heat, to a certain degree, will break the chemical bonds of alcohol; but with tests getting so sensitive its really making me wonder. If I get my arm swabbed with alcohol before a blood draw am I going to pay for it with my career? Sounds kind of silly, but the more I read on it the more I realize its not. But I guess for those of us who truly are in recovery, and know we are, our HP and friends in recovery will be there with us regardless of what some questionable "lab test" says. How are things going by the way? Ill PM you soon. Take care my friend, KEV

[CABAYRN]

In the end, no one really knows whether or not we drank, except for ourselves. For almost three years I attended a nurse support group as part of the California diversion program and listended, week after week, to people so frustrated that they had positive etgs. Of the 5 people who did have positive etgs only 1 later admitted to drinking. One of the people who claimed a false positive was actually taking Anabuse!
Despite the pain in the neck it is, it is easier to avoid certain foods or products than it is to explain away a positive urine. I have read that vanilla extract in cookies, inhaling fumes from hair spray and hand sanitizer, eating at certain restaurants like 'Panda Express'; all these can give off a positive etg. I have also read that about 60% of the people in one study I cannot atttribute, are 'high' etg producers and that women are more prone than men to have a high reading.
I think the long and short of it is there is simply not enough known about how to effectively use this test. I really fear it is hurting people who truly did not drink.

[nancyt]

when cooking with etoh the etoh burns of in seconds when cooking at high temps like panda express !

[LisaB19]

Originally Posted by nancyt

when cooking with etoh the etoh burns of in seconds when cooking at high temps like panda express !

Unfortunately, this would seem like the reasonable response, but the fact of the matter is, there are people who have tested positive from this. We have been told to avoid El Pollo Loco (they may cook the regular chicken on the same grill as the Tequila-Lime), Italian restaurants, Chinese and Japanese restaurants, etc. Here in CA it is written in my contract that I must also have a urine with a Creatinine greater that 20mg/dl and a Specific Gravity of 1.003 or greater.

[dlf2007]

Are BONs looking for dilute urine when testing for creatine, specific gravity? i.e., excessive fluid intake to cover signs of etoh ingestion? I'm curious because I just learned our BON tests for creat. and spec. grav. too....thanks. It's sad that we have to be careful of what we eat when we just want to enjoy the food.

[LisaB19]

Originally Posted by dlf2007

Are BONs looking for dilute urine when testing for creatine, specific gravity? i.e., excessive fluid intake to cover signs of etoh ingestion? I'm curious because I just learned our BON tests for creat. and spec. grav. too....thanks. It's sad that we have to be careful of what we eat when we just want to enjoy the food.

CA does. Yes, they are assuming if you have dilute urine, it's for a sinister reason. It is written in my contract that the most accurate test results come from testing prior to 10am, restricting fluid intake, avoiding caffeine, and increasing protein consumption prior to testing. I do know of at least couple of nurses who have gotten into "trouble" by having dilute urines that were negative for substances.

[startinovr2]

In NJ all of the labcore sites will only do drug screens between 11am and 3 pm. They state it is because that is when the specially trained technicians are there.. The only things I was told to avoid were poppy seeds and anything with quinine in it .

Startinovr2

[CABAYRN]

The subject of dilute urines is very near and dear to me because it almost got me kicked out of diversion. In 2005 I had just returned to work in non patient care and had to test on my lunch break, which was quite a drive so it took my whole hour to go, pee in a cup and make it back to work. Twice I drank water so that I could just go when I got there. the CA diversion program, Maximus, was livid that I had dilute urines. They specify the urine must be a spec gravity of 1.003 or > and a creatinine of 20 mg/dl or >. They made me go to a nephrologist and submit my report to them and at least twice my random samples were required to be witnessed voids. Since July 2005 I have adopted this regimen and I have never had another dilute urine or "out of range" creatinine: No matter what I have to do that day, if I have to test, I do it first thing. I drink a big glass of milk, no water, no caffeine, and some protein about an hour before I submit my sample. I know I obsess about it a little too much, but it works...Only 7 more months till I am done!

[morgandog]

I think the question is if testing becomes so sensitive is it worth anything?
When substances are on the periphery such as mouthwash or hand sanitizers are these tests really worth anything? There is no established cut off point. The testing labs say under 500 is incidental. But there is no documented proof
No scientific papers exist to prove this. Unfortunately people cought up in diversion programs have no ability to question this. Nurses are not the only people under the umbrella of suspicion, thankfully all we have to loose is our license but many folks get sent to prison or worse still loose their children because of this. I blame Dr. Skipper he set this whole thing in motion because of an unresearched paper he published. When it hit in the scientific papers testing labs jumped upon this like baraccudas in a whiskey barrel.
What a wonderful way to make money, a whole industry was created. Lots of people made money with this and the less fortunate were left out to dry.