[Marcados]

I've had great expereinces being a dude and being a nurse. I've never been abrasive about the connotations of being a nurse. It's always been a job, I punch in and out the same as others. I think it's a pretty damn tough job, not everyone can do it. It's a badge of honor to deal with life, death and illness.

I'll be honest and say I know I've been promoted a lot faster than some of my female compatriots. I think it's been a bit different being a psych nurse though, it tends to draw out more men in general. I've always gotten along with the docs, techs.... Men in nursing is necessary because it can stabilize the otherwise too feminine environments as well. Too much in-fighting between the ladies sometimes.

[SoldierNurse]

Originally Posted by Marcados

I've had great expereinces being a dude and being a nurse. I've never been abrasive about the connotations of being a nurse. It's always been a job, I punch in and out the same as others. I think it's a pretty damn tough job, not everyone can do it. It's a badge of honor to deal with life, death and illness.

I'll be honest and say I know I've been promoted a lot faster than some of my female compatriots. I think it's been a bit different being a psych nurse though, it tends to draw out more men in general. I've always gotten along with the docs, techs.... Men in nursing is necessary because it can stabilize the otherwise too feminine environments as well. Too much in-fighting between the ladies sometimes.

Nice post!

[Cammer]

Originally Posted by MagRedC5

Cammer -
"Apparently the term "nurse" has enough female connotation within it to make a Male Nurses Forum necessary on this website."

NO, apparently those [Males] with a similar interest [Males in Nursing] just like to have a forum to discuss specific issues related to Males in Nursing.

If your statement was true then there would be a Females in Nursing forum as well.

I'm not trying to push your buttons here, and I'm not sure that my attempt to post will even work given the broken nature of this thread, but it was you who stated "Let us use this forum as a way to promote the nursing profession to men, and to the ultimate goal of nursing becoming a non-gender bias career field."

Did I misunderstand or have you changed your viewpoint? It seems to me that you and I are already in agreement that there is a current gender bias in this field.

[SoldierNurse]

Originally Posted by Cammer

If your statement was true then there would be a Females in Nursing forum as well.

I'm not trying to push your buttons here, and I'm not sure that my attempt to post will even work given the broken nature of this thread, but it was you who stated "Let us use this forum as a way to promote the nursing profession to men, and to the ultimate goal of nursing becoming a non-gender bias career field."

Did I misunderstand or have you changed your viewpoint? It seems to me that you and I are already in agreement that there is a current gender bias in this field.

I certainly agree that we can disagree on issues, and yet still enjoy learning from each other's thoughts... as we can best understand.

[Marcados]

For me, I know I process things in an entirely different manner than women. I think that not only is okay to have a forum for men in this field, but that it is necessary to have a safe place to beat our drum.

I think to create the thought now, that nursing can be free of gender bias, is also necessary. If we are to create some sort of balance in the male / female ratio, then the seed of thought needs to be planted. Most things in life do not operate well without balance, we as nurses should be acutely aware of that. There is a reason why salaries have remained low for so many years, why it's been hard to organize unions or shared governance, or why staff ratios can be screwed up. Guys won't take that crap. I've heard that from feminist nursing instructors, so it's not a novel idea.

So, let's be in the man cave and exchange some ideas, kind of like we're doing now.

[Cammer]

Originally Posted by Marcados

For me, I know I process things in an entirely different manner than women. I think that not only is okay to have a forum for men in this field, but that it is necessary to have a safe place to beat our drum.

I think to create the thought now, that nursing can be free of gender bias, is also necessary. If we are to create some sort of balance in the male / female ratio, then the seed of thought needs to be planted. Most things in life do not operate well without balance, we as nurses should be acutely aware of that. There is a reason why salaries have remained low for so many years, why it's been hard to organize unions or shared governance, or why staff ratios can be screwed up. Guys won't take that crap. I've heard that from feminist nursing instructors, so it's not a novel idea.

So, let's be in the man cave and exchange some ideas, kind of like we're doing now.

That's a great post Marcado. You've brought up some excellent points. In the past nurses have not really pushed the innate power of the profession because women are not socialized to be leaders. It's rare that I meet a woman who can lead or manage. Hell, it's rare that I meet ANYONE who is really a good leader. There is so much wrong in nursing that it is going to take a long time to see a reversal. Public perception must be one of the highest priorities. The public's perception of a nurse is outdated and antiquated. But we can change it through becoming active in the public eye. Writing letters to newspapers, offering services to be consulted on news stories. We really need to set the record straight. The bottom line here is that once the public perception of nursing changes we will see the gender bias associated with the term "nurse" begin to wash away and more men will be rightfully attracted to a great profession.

Hopefully, soon will be gone the perception of the Nightingale nurse who cows down to the allknowing physician. In it's place will arise the reality of a college educated working professional who works alongside the physician to prevent disease and heal sickness.

Marcado, if you and I have anything to disagree upon it might be how we speak of nursing. In a previous posting you stated;

"It's always been a job, I punch in and out the same as others. I think it's a pretty damn tough job, not everyone can do it. It's a badge of honor to deal with life, death and illness."

While I agree with the meaning of that sentence I don't agree with your choice of the term "job." A job is something that you just do. You can leave it for something different with little lapse in thought or feeling. Nursing is a profession. A profession is what you identify with, it is part of who you are, it is where your heart lies. A professional doesn't have a job, he has a career. Perhaps I'm nitpicking a bit, but subtle changes in word choice can really make a difference when communicating and being professional. Marcado, I'm pointing this out because I think that you are a professional. You care enough to post here and express feeling and interest geared towards improving nursing. Well done.

[Ricu]

Originally Posted by Cameron

The whole idea of asking a child to draw a picture of a nurse on paper is an interresting idea. Although, my 1st curiosity to this question resides with at what age do you 1st ask them to do this, secondly is anyone in the home/family a nurse, and lastly is that person within the family male/female if so. The reason I state this is because children are not born with gender stereo types, racism, or radical ideas. This stuff is bread into them from the environmet in which they are raised. If a child is brought up to know only women to be nurses, then the question at hand is obvious. Although, bring that same child up in a society that there are equal number men/women in nursing and you may find a different result. Personal experience will effect this as well. (exp. If hospitalized at a young age chances are if they had a male or female nurse they will draw them due to memory.)
IMO, this becomes a very loaded question. If I were to ask the 5yr old that i raised for some time to draw me a picture of a nurse. I am sure I would find a male figure on the picture due to the fact that I am the only nurse he knows!

Hey Cam,

Thanks for your eloquent input. I appreciate your situation and how it positively affects that of all nurses. The boy that you speak of helping to raise is a lucky kid indeed becaue you help to parent him well. Keep being you.

R

[Cammer]

Originally Posted by Cameron

The whole idea of asking a child to draw a picture of a nurse on paper is an interresting idea. Although, my 1st curiosity to this question resides with at what age do you 1st ask them to do this, secondly is anyone in the home/family a nurse, and lastly is that person within the family male/female if so. The reason I state this is because children are not born with gender stereo types, racism, or radical ideas. This stuff is bread into them from the environmet in which they are raised. If a child is brought up to know only women to be nurses, then the question at hand is obvious. Although, bring that same child up in a society that there are equal number men/women in nursing and you may find a different result. Personal experience will effect this as well. (exp. If hospitalized at a young age chances are if they had a male or female nurse they will draw them due to memory.)
IMO, this becomes a very loaded question. If I were to ask the 5yr old that i raised for some time to draw me a picture of a nurse. I am sure I would find a male figure on the picture due to the fact that I am the only nurse he knows!

You further strengthen my point Cameron. I used the example of a child drawing a picture to show the powerful propaganda tool that the mass media is to influence the perceptions of the public at a young age. You postulate that the influence that you have had on that 5 y/o was enough to completely negate that media influence. I believe that you are probably correct. Your example is perfect. If we can persuade the mass media (TV/journalists/Hollywood) to change the antiquated stereotype that they are so fond of then the entire meaning and gender bias of the word "nurse" will change. No longer will that term be associated with femininity and a subordinate role. It will become associated with strength, independence, professionalism, knowledge, and caring.

[Cammer]

Originally Posted by hppygr8ful

Just wanted to let you all know that my 4 1/2 YO son was talking care of his father who had the flu. When my husband said "you'll make a great Dr. someday," my mancub said "No daddy, I'm a nurse. Nurses take care of people. Dr.s just give orders"

Notice he didn't say I'm a male nurse. - Hopefully it the next generation that will be able to rise above gender labels and let people just be what they are.

What wisdom comes from the mouths of babes!! This story made my day.

For some reason I haven't been able to access most of this thread until today so some of these postings are new to me.

[Cammer]

Originally Posted by Ricu

I feel ... that there will never be a gender besides female associated with the term "nurse." Assigning a gender neutral title to what is currently called nursing would help us guys out and probably the women too.

Ricu, I strongly disagree with this. This is changeable. When I was very young I remember that it was notable and considered somewhat unusual for a female to be a physician. A doctor was assumed to be male unless referred to as a "woman doctor" or "lady doctor." In a previous posting I mentioned that the profession of physician has been evolving and is no longer perceived as primarily a male role. I attribute this to the popularity of TV shows that have a large number of female doctor characters. Shows like ER, House, Scrubs, etc, all have many female doctor characters with strong leadership roles. Ironically they have very few, if any, male nurse characters.

Since public perception determines the evolutionary road of language it is not possible to educate the public as to the proper definition of any word. However it is possible to change the public's perspective on the use and meaning of a word by the manipulation of the mass media, e.g. the gender neutralization of the term "doctor." Consider the many words that have changed definitions over the years, even within my lifetime of 40 years. The best example I can think of is the word "gay." Do you think it would be possible to "educate the public" as to the correct definition of that word? No. Because the correct definition has changed. If you don't know what I mean then find a dictionary from 50 years ago and compare it with a current version.

I've mentioned this before but it bears repeating. The true solution to this issue would be to actually change the female connotation of the nursing profession by the use of mass media. If the news reporters would stop referring to male nurses in the news as "male nurse soandso" and if popular TV shows featured a proper ratio of nursing characters who were male and correctly showed the nursing role of both genders as one of being in charge of patient care as well as the decision making process in the plan of care, partnered with physicians, then this gender stereotype would die down.